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Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

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Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#161

Post by alexhutcheson »

kickopotomus wrote: post #141
alexhutcheson wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ER bills are always shockingly expensive. If you don't think your condition is life-threatening, it's normally both faster and much cheaper to go to an urgent care clinic if one is open. However, for potentially very serious problems (possible heart attack, stroke, serious injuries, etc.) you have no choice - you need to go to the ER and deal with the bill afterwards.

> 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever I think most parents would react similarly. Then to turn around and bill $756 is predatory.

Yeah didn’t mean to criticize anyone’s behavior, just offering a tip for people in that situation in the future. A child with a high fever is probably going to get seen faster at urgent care, since the ER staff would triage them behind serious injuries, heart issues, etc.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#162

Post by seanmcdirmid »

techie128 wrote: post #117
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay at the entrance, not at the exit. Also, standards of care, facility costs, and compensation for medical professionals is much lower.

I am sure you have data to back up your claim that "standards of care, facility costs, and compensation for medical professionals is much lower." Care to post it?

I’ve only been in the hospital in India once (food poisoning), but everything was vastly different from the states. It was pretty cheap, and I had to pay up front.

Fairly sure Indian doctors make much less than American ones, because I don’t have the empirical evidence of that that you are looking for.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#163

Post by rayiner »

neya wrote: post #66
point78 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well as screwed up as the system is one little part of why prices are so high is to cover when people don't pay.

Then how do you explain countries like India where it's drastically affordable and high quality at the same time?

You can’t compare the costs of labor-intensive services across countries with dramatically different labor costs. When we lived in Bangladesh, my dad made maybe $40,000/year (in today’s money). My mom stayed home and we had a full time live in cook, nanny, and housekeeper.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#164

Post by Stratoscope »

beebmam wrote: post #90
rpmisms wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's extremely cool, and has my gears turning about how to encourage that kind of behavior.

That ISN'T cool, that's quite dangerous, because if it was indeed broken, that may cause harm. Rule #1 of being a doctor is violated. X-ray imaging on a finger is virtually harmless. Using a tuning fork to vibrate a potentially broken bone and causing a patient to feel pain is not harmless.

As I explained in an update to my original comment, the offer to use the tuning fork came only after an extensive manual exam with range of motion and "does it hurt" tests. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear at first, it was 10 years ago.

I don't see what harm the tuning fork would have caused me beyond a moment of pain which would show that it was worth my time to get an X-ray.

Feeling a bit of pain is not the worst thing in the world. One time I had a tiny cavity on a lower molar, and my dentist offered to drill and fill it without anesthetic. He said that of course I was welcome to get a shot or two of novocaine as we'd normally done. But the lower jaw takes so much time to recover, and he'd had a small cavity of his own filled without novocaine and it was nice to be immediately back to normal.

He also knew that I was fairly tolerant to pain and he probably wouldn't have made the suggestion otherwise. So I took him up on it, and sure enough, it really hurt for a few seconds. But I had a completely normal mouth when I left the office. None of the usual drooling and tongue biting for the rest of the day. I went right out for a nice lunch!

So that was another tradeoff I was glad for, and hopefully these decisions are mine to make.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#165

Post by Stratoscope »

Stratoscope wrote: post #9

Beyond opaque and variable pricing for the same service, there is also the question of whether something simpler would do the trick. Some years ago, I thought I might have broken my finger. I went to the doctor and it was actually the physician's assistant who saw me. I'd explained at the front desk that I had a high-deductible policy and I would be paying in full for the visit. The PA said "Usually we would send som…

Ah, too late to edit again, I was in a hurry on that update to beat the two hour limit. Just for clarity, that one sentence was supposed to read "I figured I would save both time and money by skipping it." (emphasis added)

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#166

Post by jimmaswell »

tandem_bike wrote: post #124
johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

Everything you say is true. Modern healthcare is so expensive and inefficient because its built around the demands and capabilities of the past. Usually I hate it when people say something is fundamentally broken, but healthcare really is. The time has come for a complete overhaul of the system. No more primary care doctors. They can be replaced by software and patient service representatives. Diagnostic services sho…

Unlimited licensing could lead to everyone getting paid too low or unemployment. I've honestly wondered if compsci is goingto need caps. Everywhere is unreasonably picky about who will be considered even for an internship, because they can, because there are so many compsci grads. Getting my first job involved months of searching and horrible offers like 30k until I got lucky. This being with extensive volunteer experience since high school, 3.8 college gpa, honors in a tech school my high school sent me to, and an internship. I've seen lots of horror stories of CS grads applying everywhere for years fruitlessly because nobody wants them. Is this what we want to happen to doctors?

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#167

Post by mettamage »

residentfoam wrote: post #160
johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

I have mixed feelings about this. As society, we seem to be ok with millennials fresh out of college making hundreds of thousands of $$$ a year for a bunch Javascript that allows people to share pictures of their butt with their friends BUT we are not ok with doctors who literally - save lives - getting paid according to their responsibilities? Same goes with football/basketball/etc.. players whose sole purpose in li…

Don't worry, that's only the in the US. In Switzerland, for example, many people are paid a lot. They also pay a lot.

In The Netherlands, psychiatrists have a higher entry level salary than the average CS grad.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#168

Post by slg »

johnwheeler wrote: post #155
slg wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I worked at Vanderbilt on their payroll system, and I would regularly see general practitioners making $350,000 a year, and this was 15 years ago! It wasn’t uncommon to see teaching doctors getting paid a million dollars. It isn't uncommon for software developers to make $350,000 a year or even over a million if they get equity in the right company. Maybe the Googles of the world wouldn't have to spy on their users…

You could make the same case for those on Wall Street. I think it’s a separate debate whether all that is fair. I think what’s different in medicine is 1. Medical care is not optional when you need it. 2. There aren’t readily available options to choose between. 3. You don’t know how much you’ll be paying when you need it. 4. Band-aids and tongue suppressors costing $30. stuff like that which is unquestionably egregi…

All of what you are saying is true. However none of that is dictated by doctors or a direct result of doctors' salaries being too high like OP suggested.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#170

Post by aheilbut »

mettamage wrote: post #167
residentfoam wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about this. As society, we seem to be ok with millennials fresh out of college making hundreds of thousands of $$$ a year for a bunch Javascript that allows people to share pictures of their butt with their friends BUT we are not ok with doctors who literally - save lives - getting paid according to their responsibilities? Same goes with football/basketball/etc.. players whose sole purpose in li…

Don't worry, that's only the in the US. In Switzerland, for example, many people are paid a lot. They also pay a lot. In The Netherlands, psychiatrists have a higher entry level salary than the average CS grad.

They also have a lot more training and responsibility than the average CS grad.
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