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Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

latimes.com

131–140 of 345 posts

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#131
post #90
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's extremely cool, and has my gears turning about how to encourage that kind of behavior.

That ISN'T cool, that's quite dangerous, because if it was indeed broken, that may cause harm. Rule #1 of being a doctor is violated. X-ray imaging on a finger is virtually harmless. Using a tuning fork to vibrate a potentially broken bone and causing a patient to feel pain is not harmless.

Putting the patient into medical debt also causes harm

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#132

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

Here's a contrasting story.

On holiday in Rarotonga, our 2 year old got a chest infection.

We made it way up the hill to the hospital. A stray dog watched from the side of the road as we drive into the parking area. No one in sight. Eventually we saw someone who pointed us to a building wherein sat the duty doctor.

Super efficient, trained in new Zealand, she examined the sprog, diagnosed him and gave us the appropriate meds. No waiting, all sorted in less than 20 minutes.

Finally she said apologetically that we would have to pay - $2.50.

She took the money and out it into an old fashioned money box and cheerily sent us on our way.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#133
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That ISN'T cool, that's quite dangerous, because if it was indeed broken, that may cause harm. Rule #1 of being a doctor is violated. X-ray imaging on a finger is virtually harmless. Using a tuning fork to vibrate a potentially broken bone and causing a patient to feel pain is not harmless.

Sure it's dangerous, but $400 out of pocket for an xray of your finger is also quite ridiculous. If my finger wasn't obviously broken, I'd probably take my chances with a tuning fork, too.

The real problem is that the x-ray costs 400. It doesn’t have to be that way

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#134
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do you explain countries like India where it's drastically affordable and high quality at the same time?

You pay at the entrance, not at the exit. Also, standards of care, facility costs, and compensation for medical professionals is much lower.

Idk, doctors in France are literally 10x cheaper and the standard of care is actually higher. The US has a big cost control issue even for your PCP.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#135

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

Finally, someone said this. It's very rare to see putting some blame on doctors for such exorbitant medical prices in the US. I have made several comments about that on HN describing similar observation that I found. A recent example was when I went to see a doctor for ear infection. She put a otoscope in my ear, looked at it for one minute, prescribed me some anti-bacterial, and wrote up $250 for the service. The first time I came to the US, the same thing happened (I have had ear infection occasionally). I went to a hospital in NJ because my host family at the time drove me there. I didn't have insurance and they sent me to the ER department. I was charged $500.

In the US, the journey to become a doctor is made unnecessarily complicated and once people become doctors, they do gatekeeping and make sure it's equally as hard for others to become one. But the reality is that the physicians who treat garden-variety diseases can be trained much less expensively. No wonder physicians make loads of money while complaining about their massive student loan. My gf is a medical resident; my host parents in the US are both doctors; I have so many doctors as acquaintances; and I know that what they do is NOT even remotely difficult in terms of intellectual demand (only physically tiring and emotionally draining sometimes when you have to deal with difficult patients). I, as a programmer, would switch my salary with them in a heartbeat (regret leaving medical school in after second year in my home country, though I hated it at that time because of the sheer amount of rote memorization one had to do) and I do believe what I do everyday requires at least equally tasking mental load than what doctors do.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#136

Insurance is not supposed to make routine things more affordable. It's supposed to spread the risk of catastrophic loss from unlikely events around to a large group of people so you don't have to worry about losing your house if you get struck by lightning. Everyone needs routine medical care at some point so an insurance model doesn't work there. You don't have gas or grocery insurance, do you? If that were a thing…

There's still a benefit in insurance for routine procedures to balance costs between the young and old. (As long as young people are required to have insurance)

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#137
Having lived in the US for over a decade, I am disappointed with the system. I also notice that nobody in this thread, so far, has talked about liability and the overly litigious aspect of the American society. There are so many lawyers that are willing to file malpractice lawsuits against anybody in the medical industry which also raises costs overall.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#138
post #90
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's extremely cool, and has my gears turning about how to encourage that kind of behavior.

That ISN'T cool, that's quite dangerous, because if it was indeed broken, that may cause harm. Rule #1 of being a doctor is violated. X-ray imaging on a finger is virtually harmless. Using a tuning fork to vibrate a potentially broken bone and causing a patient to feel pain is not harmless.

This mentality is the problem with current medicine. The doctor is not causing harm, they are mitigating it with a less than optimal method. If the tuning forks analysis has better outcome than no assessment, no harm has been done

If a doctor has a treatment with 80% efficacy that costs $1,000, and another with 90% efficacy that costs $100,000, there is nothing immoral about giving the patient the choice. "Doing Harm" would be prescribing treatment that leaves the patient worse off than they started.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#139
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/10/25/doctors-sal... Providers are the core problem. Various doctor associations (AMA et al) have strangled supply side of healthcare through State licensure and scope of practice laws. Just read medical forums to get an idea of what an average doctor thinks about competition in the form of midlevels: https://www.auntminnie.com/Forum/tm.aspx?m=581583 "Don’t teach your mid le…

> Various doctor associations (AMA et al) have strangled supply side of healthcare To add more details to this here's something I recently read about the supply constraint and its origins. > Then as now, Medicare reimbursed hospitals for a significant share of residents’ salaries. The Balanced Budget Act established limits on those reimbursements, effectively fixing the number of funded residents at 1996 levels. (In…

This a hundred times! The shortage is real and urgent. My gf, who is in her second year of a low-tier residency program, received many offers from various hospitals promising her $300K/year to work for them. This is well known among residents that once you survive residency (which is not a high bar to begin with), you will make at least $250K/year.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#140
post #74

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

I recently took my GF to the ER because she had been stung by a bee and was worried she was allergic. She was feeling dizzy but once we were in the ER she started feeling better. They basically took her vitals, waited 30 minutes or so, gave her a steroid, and then sent us home. They told us it probably wouldn't be very expensive as she was uninsured. Later the bills arrived: $1300 from the ER ($1900 minus a $600 unin…

Generally speaking, that’s an example of a fundamentally wasteful ER visit, and why the lack of universal coverage is so dumb. That’s why ERs cost a fortune.

If you’re not bleeding, have a broken limb or other trauma or an expectation of being admitted, you don’t belong in the ER. Take a benadryl.

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