Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing • Hacker News Board

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#71

Post by core-questions » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:30 PM UTC

Rothnargoth wrote: post #61

"Exposure to grass was, surprisingly, associated with higher odds of psychological distress." I'm guessing it's the constant maintenance of a lawn that stresses people, and in this case, other people's lawns. That or you're a youtuber or streamer, and the constant sound of lawn equipment is driving you nuts.

Surprisingly, I find my lawn maintenance to be supremely de-stressing. I get to slap on headphones and listen to podcasts or music while doing mild physical labour that results in something becoming more aesthetically pleasing than it had been previously.

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#72

Post by pastor_elm » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

Rothnargoth wrote: post #61

"Exposure to grass was, surprisingly, associated with higher odds of psychological distress." I'm guessing it's the constant maintenance of a lawn that stresses people, and in this case, other people's lawns. That or you're a youtuber or streamer, and the constant sound of lawn equipment is driving you nuts.

Being out on the open plain exposes you to predators.

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#73

Post by colechristensen » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

0_gravitas wrote: post #49

I wonder if green space and trees still improve well being if someone is allergic to them (not deathly so, just enough to be a nuisance). I myself am especially allergic to the flora around me, and I always dream of moving somewhere cold where everything is nice and dead and can't hurt me.

You can make your living space a low-grade cleanroom with a decent HEPA filter or two (the 99.97 kind) for at most a few hundred dollars. If I close the windows my apartment easily achieves a PM2.5 score of 0.

You can't so much create an "outside" environment for so little effort.

My biggest grievance with where I live is that being "outside" somewhere that concrete and brief strips of grass for dogs to pee in aren't the dominant space occupiers is work and I'm not just outside, I'm at a destination.

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#74

Post by sudosteph » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:35 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #64

I think its something to do with the complex, fractal imagery provided by trees etc. The simple planar surfaces of built spaces are profoundly unstimulating.

I feel the opposite. I'm way more prone to feeling overstimulated in urban environments. Though it's nearly impossible to say if that's from the environment, the people, or both.

Forests and beaches are both very calming to me though. I think it's the consistent, but non-threatening landscape and background noises and smells. I'm not over-stimulated by those natural environments, so I have peace to introspect. In cities I'm always watching my surroundings and trying to figure out where I am based on the buildings and roads around me, so I definitely feel like I notice and am stimulated by the city. I'm just kind of exhausted afterward and not able to relax because it demands so much attention.

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#75

Post by moojd » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:37 PM UTC

jerryalex wrote: post #44

What are some great cities with surrounding nature for software engineers? I was looking at Atlanta, GA which I heard has the most trees for a city. According to Wikipedia, it has 47.9% tree coverage

Atlanta is great! There are places like this[0] inside the perimeter. My old apartment had a trail down to the river and we would drive half a mile up the road and then tube back down to my apartment.

[0] https://www.google.com/maps/@33.8906588,-84.4418735,3a,90y,1...

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#76

Post by miles » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:40 PM UTC

A well-known refrain, I know, but correlation does not imply causation[0].

Spurious Correlations[1] has been posted here many times[2], but a few representative examples may be worth sharing just the same:

Per capita cheese consumption correlates with Number of people who died by becoming tangled in their bedsheets

Total revenue generated by arcades correlates with Computer science doctorates awarded in the US

Japanese passenger cars sold in the US correlates with Suicides by crashing of motor vehicle

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_cau...

[1] https://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?query=spurious%20correlations&sort=b...

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#77

Post by ip26 » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #17

Causality1 wrote: post #6

Not surprising. As someone who grew up in rural and suburban environments, big cities feel intensely depressing. I go there and nothing I look at makes me feel happy. I'm sure people who grew up there feel differently and see things I don't see, but for me Manhattan feels as dead as the surface of Mars.

Manhattan has Central Park, which is a forest. Compare vs the suburban sprawl of modern design where it's an ocean of tract housing with stunted little fresh-planted trees and I'd say the reverse is generally true. I can see the argument for rural living, but not for modern suburbia.

Suburbs can have vast canopies. They just often choose not to, feeling bare grass is the most attractive.

(I personally don't understand the appeal of a neighborhood that has been methodically expunged of shade)

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#78

Post by majinuub » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:52 PM UTC

Could this be caused by a deeply ingrained instinct from our hominid ancestors that associates trees with safety? Like Miles stated, correlation doesn't imply causation. It makes you think though!

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#79

Post by ineedasername » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

This is another study that makes me wonder what the real cause may be. Areas with trees, in an urban setting, tend to be more expensive locations. So, is it the the trees, or the higher socio-economic status?

In suburban and rural areas where trees are more common, even if the cost of living is low, everything is less dense, people tend to have larger dwellings at lower prices, etc. So, again, is it the trees or the other covarying factors?

Are there any studies like this that transform an area into a green space (with trees, I suppose) and show pre/post outcomes? Ones that weren't driven by the community? (Where that could indicate it was simply a nicer more cohesive community, with that as the cause instead of the green stuff)

That said, this is the sort of result that feels like it should be true, but then those are the results we should most be thorough about our methods to avoid confirmation bias. Research is hard!

Re: Living Near Trees, Not Just Green Space, Improves Wellbeing

#80

Post by gdubs » Fri, Aug 02, 2019, 9:57 PM UTC

miles wrote: post #76

A well-known refrain, I know, but correlation does not imply causation[0]. Spurious Correlations[1] has been posted here many times[2], but a few representative examples may be worth sharing just the same: Per capita cheese consumption correlates with Number of people who died by becoming tangled in their bedsheets Total revenue generated by arcades correlates with Computer science doctorates awarded in the US Japane…

Sure, but this article cites a large study that seems to correct for a lot of variables. Might be more productive to discuss specific aspects of the study you think are flawed.