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Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

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Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#61

Post by velcrovan »

en4bz wrote: post #42
minikites wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Except you often have to wait weeks for non-life threatening issues. So it's preferable to have a system where people go bankrupt for routine care? https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/10.2105/AJPH.2018.3049...

You're presenting a false dichotomy. If people are being gouged then you can pass laws to limit that. You don't need single payer to solve these issues. Everyone knows the pricing system is BS. If that's the case then we should pass laws to change this.

Single payer is the best way to solve these issues though.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#62

Post by [deleted] »

Shivetya wrote: post #49
johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

if you are upset over their pay imagine how you must feel about those in public service, let alone their pensions. you can pull down those numbers being a city manager and get over 100k in pension to boot! the medical profession is not easy and i don't begrudge them their fees.

[deleted]

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#63

Post by mehrdadn »

johnwheeler wrote: post #48
ssx wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you had insurance it wouldn’t have been so high. If you don’t have insurance, you literally are the problem.

I do have insurance. That was my deductible.

Did your insurance go up after the fact?

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#64

Post by krooj »

johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

One really nice thing about single-payer back in Ontario was public salary disclosure, aka, the sunshine list. Since most physicians essentially work for the government, if they make over 100k/yr, the salary is public knowledge. Hint: Canadian doctors aren't eating dirt, by any means.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#65

Post by robocat »

tdhoot wrote: post #37
Stratoscope wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite see the connection. It seems unlikely that my doctor and his assistant would treat heart arrhythmia the same as a sore finger. And no one said I couldn't have an X-ray. They merely offered me a faster and less expensive diagnostic procedure at my own option.

I think it depends on the efficacy of the cheaper procedure. It's rare for the cheaper procedure to be as accurate as the more expensive one. If you knew the tuning fork was 80% accurate and an x-ray 100% accurate, would you still take it? I'd personally pay extra to make sure I was diagnosed correctly.

It depends upon the medical issue, how much you can afford, and how much you know about the downsides if you should have the issue.

If it looks straight, a hairline fracture will heal properly if unstressed for a few weeks. Probably not a huge risk if wrong.

You could constrain a broken finger yourself if you are any good at looking up information and applying it.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#66

Post by neya »

point78 wrote: post #35
johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

Well as screwed up as the system is one little part of why prices are so high is to cover when people don't pay.

Then how do you explain countries like India where it's drastically affordable and high quality at the same time?

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#67

Post by wikibob »

mehrdadn wrote: post #53
johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

> I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Why not at least pay a portion of it that you would have felt was sensible?

By paying even $0.01 you acknowledge the validity of the debt and then it’s much easier for them to sue you and get a judgement.

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#68

Post by skadamou »

johnwheeler wrote: post #25

I took my 4 year old to the ER because he had a 103 fever. The doctor put an ear thermometer to him and told me to give him some childrens ibuprofen. The visit lasted all of 5 minutes. The cost: $756.00. I refused to pay it. It was the first time I did not pay a debt and the first time I was sent to collections. I refused based on principle, and not because I couldn’t afford it. Collections called me for about 3 mont…

Those numbers do seem to be a bit higher than the national salary averages for physicians [1]. However, physician pay only amounts to something like 8% of total health care costs [2]. I'm not saying that doctor pay at Vanderbilt isn't driving up their healthcare costs but this doesn't seem to be the whole story when it comes to national healthcare costs.

[1] https://www.merritthawkins.com/news-and-insights/blog/job-se...

[2] https://jacksonhealthcare.com/media-room/news/md-salaries-as...

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#69

Post by johnwheeler »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #57
johnwheeler wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then it sounds like a vicious circle. Should we fix it by paying exorbitant fees or charging reasonable prices?

People saying, 'We should pay for the things I do in the economy, but not something someone else does, "out of principle"' is an opinion that exists in reality, it's just an unbecoming and non-constructive one.

Is it more, or less unbecoming than charging $756.00 to take someone’s temperature?

Re: Insured price $2,758, cash price $521

#70

Post by alt_f4 »

robocat wrote: post #65
tdhoot wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends on the efficacy of the cheaper procedure. It's rare for the cheaper procedure to be as accurate as the more expensive one. If you knew the tuning fork was 80% accurate and an x-ray 100% accurate, would you still take it? I'd personally pay extra to make sure I was diagnosed correctly.

It depends upon the medical issue, how much you can afford, and how much you know about the downsides if you should have the issue. If it looks straight, a hairline fracture will heal properly if unstressed for a few weeks. Probably not a huge risk if wrong. You could constrain a broken finger yourself if you are any good at looking up information and applying it.

But if it heals wrong, the fix is to have it broken again by a specialist and constrained. it hurts as hell and costs 3x as much. Hence, going back to the point about large deductibles for simple procedures being total bullshit..
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