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Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

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Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#221

Post by celticmusic »

bontaq wrote: post #194
fastbeef wrote: post #58

The solution to this problem is as simple as it is revolting to programmers - realize that programming is a low-value task. The high-value task is solving business problems, if it happens so that programming is the easiest path then go for it. The real value to the business however, lies in domain expertise - something programmers are forced to become in order to be able to write code for it. The trick is to find a d…

What a statement, programming can be low value (not solving a business problem) or high value (solving a business problem).

It's one of those statements that doesn't actually have to be said since everyone implicitly understands (because it's not unique to programming), but that someone feels the need to say because it makes them feel insightful. related: bikeshedding.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#222

Post by bobthepanda »

C4stor wrote: post #46

I'm not sure I'm buying that. The JVM ? Still rocking it 20 years after. Memory allocations pattern ? Still there. The network stack ? Well, doesn't seem to have changed a lot. The older guys, they seem like they had the time to correctly learn the unix network tools, the jvm debugging ones, the memory inspection ones. I've known older devs for which I have the utmost respect because I felt like they can just debug t…

This is the bottom section of TFA:

> You’ve got a cash cow, milk that sucker!

> I know you love programming because you like technology, so this may go against your very nature, but no one says you’ve got to jump every time some snot-nosed kid invents a new way to run byte-code. You have invested a lot of time and energy mastering the technology you use, and your experience differentiates you. Money follows scarcity, and snow-birding on an older technology, if you can stomach it, may just be the way to protect your earning potential. The industry turns on a dime, but is slow to retire proven technology. It is highly likely that you will still be able to earn some decent coin in the technology you know and love even after a few decades.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#223

Post by blub »

Stratoscope wrote: post #158
randrews wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both have problems. The best system is one where a passing review means "I feel comfortable maintaining this;" too often a passing review means "this is how I would have written it."

I have suffered under far too many "this is how I would have written it" reviews. It can be really demoralizing to write perfectly good, working, readable, performant, well-tested code only to have it rejected and have to rewrite it because the reviewer wishes you had used a different C++ feature. I tried something like your "I feel comfortable maintaining this" approach recently when I was the reviewer. We have an i…

You'll never do that update right? The more you wait, the more that developer will get annoyed when you interrupt them with it. :)

In this case actually I would have taken the half an hour and sat with them to explain what I think should be done differently and why, prioritized by importance.

Reviews done through tools work if there aren't many comments and if the basic design is ok.

I've seen reviews where someone's not skilled enough and they have to be taught idioms in dozens of comments in 10-20 patch sets. It's pretty horrible, but the positive side is that at least they're not merging crap.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#224

Post by [deleted] »

zackmorris wrote: post #196

Ok I'll bite. I had the realization yesterday that I peaked at 25 (I'm 42). I got my computer engineering degree in 1999 and used to do things like really complicated integrations in calculus, and solve weird 3D intersection formulas for different variables to do change of coordinates on various surfaces for rasterizing before wolframalpha.com was a thing. I look at my invention lists from 20 years ago and they were…

[deleted]

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#225

Post by tempsolution »

The article is a bit ironic. It apparently talks about people who don't learn and don't change but suggests to them to just go and "find a new profession"...

A new grad, compared to a 10 year veteran :D. Yes sure, it levels the playing field, totally. As if language and frameworks would mean anything. I don't even want to know what kind of "veterans" would compare to a new grad. If you are worth anything at what you are doing, you would kick any smaller team of new grads out of the park, even when working alone, in a language you don't know and with a framework you don't know. New grads essentially know nothing about software engineering, nada...

It's baffling to me how any company would think otherwise. Perhaps they should review their hiring policies then.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#226

Post by triceratops »

jki275 wrote: post #148
IshKebab wrote: post #47

I think this must be a US thing. There are plenty of older programmers in my current job. Probably helps that it is C++ and not something like Typescript, but still.

C++ is a skill that is in demand in the US as well, and age doesn't matter a bit, especially as many of the younger crowd can't or won't learn it.

> as many of the younger crowd can't or won't learn it.

Or don't need to learn it. Web dev jobs are more plentiful than C++ jobs and need different skills.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#227

Post by AtlasBarfed »

C4stor wrote: post #46

I'm not sure I'm buying that. The JVM ? Still rocking it 20 years after. Memory allocations pattern ? Still there. The network stack ? Well, doesn't seem to have changed a lot. The older guys, they seem like they had the time to correctly learn the unix network tools, the jvm debugging ones, the memory inspection ones. I've known older devs for which I have the utmost respect because I felt like they can just debug t…

The javascript ecosystem however...

The entire stack literally (for the actual meaning of literally) change completely every year. Frameworks, language, package manager, libraries, etc.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#228

Post by ryandrake »

weliketocode wrote: post #23

This is a scare-tactic article from 10 years ago quoting ANOTHER scare-tactic article from 10 years prior. The truth: The number of programmers has doubled every two years since the 70s. The demand for programmers is today exceeding the supply. Until the supply/demand forces change, these headlines will continue to be nothing but fake news.

> The demand for programmers is today exceeding the supply.

Tell that to the company having to screen through 100 resumes and interview 10 candidates for every open development position they post. Or to the developer who has to apply to 100 jobs in order to get 10 interviews and maybe one offer.

The "Shortage of Engineers" meme truly won't die.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#229

Post by PorterDuff »

zackmorris wrote: post #196

Ok I'll bite. I had the realization yesterday that I peaked at 25 (I'm 42). I got my computer engineering degree in 1999 and used to do things like really complicated integrations in calculus, and solve weird 3D intersection formulas for different variables to do change of coordinates on various surfaces for rasterizing before wolframalpha.com was a thing. I look at my invention lists from 20 years ago and they were…

That's a good post, but I think that I went down a different set of windy little paths. My worlds (graphics and video products) had tons of companies disappear, and the ones still standing matured to the point of offshore manufacture, maintenance, decreasing margins. It hasn't all disappeared but I think that a lot of the fun is gone.

I'm older than you, never bothered with internet technologies and languages, and feel a bit of ennui about the whole deal. My guess is that a world that only consisted of workstation software and embedded systems, slightly fleshed out with an internet made up of Amazon, email, USENET (and cars without video games on the dash) is just the fantasy of a Luddite.

My temptation is to take on increasingly archaic skills. Rebuilding a carburetor or playing a musical instrument is already in the pallet, so maybe bookbinding or blacksmithing should be on the horizon.

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