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Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

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Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#151
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amen to all that. OA> Herein is the source of the problem. The more irrelevant experience a candidate has, the more lopsided the utility/value equation becomes… No, the source of the problem is the idea that 10 years of “C++ experience” is “irrelevant” to a project using Rails, as if development experience is somehow locked to the language you happened to do the development in. Being a valuable senior developer is ab…

I worry the real problem is not that managers are looking for someone who can do the job, but someone they can exploit. The gleeful exuberance over 'new' things is something you can use against a younger programmer. The older one who knows the vintages doesn't get as excited, because it's really not that exciting. You haven't discovered Shangri La. We've kinda already done 90% of this before, just maybe not all at th…

That's just the startup world. There are a million chill software jobs out there. If you get sick of it, save up a bunch of money and move to Dallas or Atlanta or any other large-ish city and find a quality enterprise shop.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting is a really shitty job and sad life The thing is, it doesn't have to be and, until relatively recently, honestly wasn't. It's a shitty job and a sad life because we have open offices, ticket-tracking systems and daily standups. There was a time when programming was exciting and rewarding.

>open offices Noise-cancelling headphones are mankind's greatest weapon in the hopeless war against braindead management practices.

Do you guys now understand why I've said it's a sad life?

We are so "important" to mankind, yet the best we can do is to buy Noise-cancelling headphones.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to nitpick on a couple of these: > brain "degradation" At 40? If you're suffering from loss of mental capabilities to the point that it affects your performance at work at 40 , you have medical issues that need immediate attention. > simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ) I've seen this stated many times, but nothing is forcing anyone to offer a particular salary or demand a parti…

Not sure that I agree on the first point. In my 20s, I could easily work 12 hour days, keep tons of complex state in my head, and almost never walked into a room and wondered why I went there (both literally and in the programming metaphorical equivalent). In my 40s, much of that has changed. I'm beat mentally after a 6-7 hour day of coding. I can only keep smaller portions of the system in my head easily. It's possi…

I think I'm probably a little less sharp than I was in my 20s (now 47), but I'm a FAR more valuable employee

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just want to nitpick on a couple of these: > brain "degradation" At 40? If you're suffering from loss of mental capabilities to the point that it affects your performance at work at 40 , you have medical issues that need immediate attention. > simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ) I've seen this stated many times, but nothing is forcing anyone to offer a particular salary or demand a parti…

Not sure that I agree on the first point. In my 20s, I could easily work 12 hour days, keep tons of complex state in my head, and almost never walked into a room and wondered why I went there (both literally and in the programming metaphorical equivalent). In my 40s, much of that has changed. I'm beat mentally after a 6-7 hour day of coding. I can only keep smaller portions of the system in my head easily. It's possi…

I also get tired earlier, but the code I write is more efficient and maintainable now, leading to greater efficiencies in the long term.

I remember 10 hour days in my twenties that shortly turned out to be a total waste of time.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mirin is a common staple used in Japanese cooking. It's a type of rice wine, similar to sake, but with a lower alcohol and higher sugar content." Unlikely this is what you meant. Admiring?

It is 100% a colloquialism..

Meaning what?

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#156
Recently I found a relatively cheap goat farm for sale back on my home country. That would be my plan B.

Forget consulting, forget management, my plan B is taking everything I know about automation, optimisation and continuous learning, and apply it to a completely different domain.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#157

A professor once told me that I shouldn't become a software engineer because my cognitive abilities will decline with age, thus making it difficult to keep a job :( I'm at Microsoft now and see plenty of older engineers that have very, very valuable experience and skills. This myth is dumb.

Seems like your professor was also saying that he chose to be a professor so that he can stay employed when his cognitive abilities decline.

It is one of the few jobs in the world that offers actual lifetime employment, so you could be right.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#158
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion this is much, much better than trying to decipher what the heck that one co-worker pushed to production and how exactly it broke things. Of course there are ways to smuggle rubbish through code review, but it's still better than no reviews.

Both have problems. The best system is one where a passing review means "I feel comfortable maintaining this;" too often a passing review means "this is how I would have written it."

I have suffered under far too many "this is how I would have written it" reviews. It can be really demoralizing to write perfectly good, working, readable, performant, well-tested code only to have it rejected and have to rewrite it because the reviewer wishes you had used a different C++ feature.

I tried something like your "I feel comfortable maintaining this" approach recently when I was the reviewer. We have an internal geodata visualization tool that I've done some work on lately, and a talented C++ developer added a cool and useful new feature to the JavaScript front end.

He asked me to review it and said, "I'm sure you will find a lot of things I should change! This is my first real JavaScript project other than some hobby stuff."

And he was right. There was a lot of stuff I would have done differently. There was a mix of jQuery and document.getElementById, a fair amount of repeated code, var instead of const or let, and so on.

Our "house style" for reviews would have been for me to comment on every single one of these things line by line and expect him to change them all to my satisfaction. It would then require a second review pass to clear up misunderstandings, and a third to see if it all ended up OK.

Instead I told him:

"Your new feature is awesome! You're right, there are a lot of nitpicky things I would change in the code to bring it up to more modern JS style, and I'm glad you asked about that. But I didn't find anything that looks broken or dangerous. And the feature works, right? I could spend half a day writing comments explaining everything I would do differently, and that would keep you busy for another half day fixing it up. But I know you have more important things to work on right now, so maybe we can try something different. Go ahead and submit the code as is so people can start using it. When I get a little time I will just go ahead and make the changes I'm thinking of. I'll add review comments on my own changes and send it to you for review so you can see what I changed and why. That will avoid a lot of back-and-forth. I think it will save us both a lot of time and be a more pleasant experience too."

Needless to say, the developer liked this idea. And his manager was within earshot when we discussed it and thanked me for thinking of this approach.

I still haven't made that update, and this reminds me to do it sometime soon. But the code still works, people are using it productively, it has not failed once, and who really cares if there are some minor imperfections in the code style? None of our code is perfect!

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Mirin is a common staple used in Japanese cooking. It's a type of rice wine, similar to sake, but with a lower alcohol and higher sugar content." Unlikely this is what you meant. Admiring?

It is 100% a colloquialism..

I think it's short for "admiring": admiring -> admirin' -> mirin'
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