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Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

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Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#91

Post by bachmeier »

PedroBatista wrote: post #9

This is generally true. It's a combination of many things, from brain "degradation", ageism, simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ), other more important interests like having a real life and when you really mute all the marketing BS, your delusions and wishful thinking, the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting is a really shitty job and sad life for the maj…

Just want to nitpick on a couple of these:

> brain "degradation"

At 40? If you're suffering from loss of mental capabilities to the point that it affects your performance at work at 40, you have medical issues that need immediate attention.

> simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable )

I've seen this stated many times, but nothing is forcing anyone to offer a particular salary or demand a particular salary.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#92

Post by codernyc16 »

spraak wrote: post #65
jknoepfler wrote: post #48

I don't know. I feel like there's a pretty clear power law governing the skill-ceiling below which additional experience adds actual value to dev work. ~80% of programming labor (testing, basic REST services, static web content, managing a small-to-medium-size SQL database, etc.) has a very low skill-ceiling. I've been in the industry for 7 years, I now run my own show doing all of these things. It's just simple grun…

> grinding away at a FANG I've started to propose we s/FANG/Big N/g "FANG" leaves off other obvious big companies, e.g. Uber, and it wouldn't scale to keep trying to add them to the acronym. Here N is used like when one talks about a list "N items long"

NOFANG?

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#93

Post by gcatalfamo »

pmiller2 wrote: post #67
jameshart wrote: post #35

There’s a trap in software dev careers. If you fall into it, you can really get stuck post 40. If you work at a small-ish dev organization - especially in-house dev in a non-tech company - you can rise pretty far and become pretty senior, and your indispensability can net you a decent income. But on the open job market those skills don’t transfer as well. The senior roles in small dev shops are filled by promoting fr…

> ...senior roles in BIG dev shops are filled by hiring people who know how to operate in a big company, and you don’t have those skills. I'm not convinced of that. I was recently hired as a senior engineer at a large tech company that has more engineers than the sum total number of employees at every other company I worked at previously. My skills transferred just fine.

I'm sure of that, but the problem is not when on the job, but while interviewing.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#94

Post by wpietri »

mothsonasloth wrote: post #50

The article uses Ruby on Rails as an argument from 2009, saying the 10 years of C++ development is no longer relevant. Apart from that statement not really ageing well, it doesn't really make sense as there will always be a consistent demand for C++ for embedded etc., likewise Java for enterprise, as they are mature and proven technologies in instutitions. Just as there is an established market for RoR with companies…

I think you're making the author's point. Java at this point is the new COBOL. C++ has gone from important mainstream language to narrow niche. Ruby on Rails is on the same declining curve, just not as far along; much of the excitement has shifted to Node, React etc.

Demand for old languages isn't consistent. It declines over time as code bases get replaced. A programmer betting that they will die before their chosen language does is taking some terrible risks.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#95

Post by JoeAltmaier »

Don't give in to the dark side (management)!

I became my own boss, and specialize in projects where my expertise is still valuable. With the dwindling supply of engineers still working in these spaces, contracts are pretty easy to find. As time goes on and the space becomes sparser, my rate goes up.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#96

Post by jupiter90000 »

ergothus wrote: post #21

This is definitely a problem, particularly for those that aren't in tech cities with endless jobs, but the alternatives discussed in this article are all....not great. * Work as a consultant - I'm biased here from my own bad experiences, but consultants are often treated as a source of future problems, not solutions. (largely because of communication and incentives, not because of programming skill) * Work in managem…

Re: consultants, depends on the engagement. If you engage with clients where you are effectively the only way for them to get anything software done (ie, not in addition to an on-site engineering team), you can be seen as an invaluable resource that just gets things done for the business.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#98

Post by ausjke »

It really depends on how you manage your career, I for one plan to work to 70s by coding, just love doing that. My theorem is that, many professors are still doing researching and teaching PhD students in their 60s/70s, software developers is no different, unless you give up learning yourself. Anyway just want to say, if you really like being a programmer, no need for Plan B at 40, just keep learning and coding like a 'professor'

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#99

Post by Legogris »

pmiller2 wrote: post #36
cameldrv wrote: post #13

What others have said about keeping up with technology is certainly true. However, I've found the opposite to be true -- there are many more young programmers because the industry has expanded so much in the past twenty years, there is a relative lack of more senior people, and in my experience they are in high demand. That said, if you're going for a straight individual contributor role rather than a lead or manager…

>That said, if you're going for a straight individual contributor role rather than a lead or manager, there may be questions about why you haven't moved up and whether that might indicate a lack of ability to learn new things that might make you a less valuable individual contributor. Continuing as an IC (doing things) rather than becoming a manager where you help people do things indicates a "lack of ability to lear…

It doesn't, but many people have conscious or unconscious biases in that direction.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#100

Post by nicoburns »

gcatalfamo wrote: post #93
pmiller2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...senior roles in BIG dev shops are filled by hiring people who know how to operate in a big company, and you don’t have those skills. I'm not convinced of that. I was recently hired as a senior engineer at a large tech company that has more engineers than the sum total number of employees at every other company I worked at previously. My skills transferred just fine.

I'm sure of that, but the problem is not when on the job, but while interviewing.

I reckon it's possible to acquire most of those skills at small companies. It just really depends on the small company. It's also easy to get stuck in a deadend of specialised practices at a small company if you're not careful, and those people will struggle to get jobs later.
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