Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

improvingsoftware.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 446 posts

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#51

Post by randrews »

oriolid wrote: post #45
randrews wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would add code reviews to that. The advent of those was when it really stopped being fun for me, because it's really hard to keep that from turning into "your boss nitpicking every line you write."

In my opinion this is much, much better than trying to decipher what the heck that one co-worker pushed to production and how exactly it broke things. Of course there are ways to smuggle rubbish through code review, but it's still better than no reviews.

Both have problems. The best system is one where a passing review means "I feel comfortable maintaining this;" too often a passing review means "this is how I would have written it."

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#52

Post by curioussavage »

PedroBatista wrote: post #9

This is generally true. It's a combination of many things, from brain "degradation", ageism, simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ), other more important interests like having a real life and when you really mute all the marketing BS, your delusions and wishful thinking, the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting is a really shitty job and sad life for the maj…

With all that experience you must have forgotten about or never held a truly crappy job. Try working in a call center or retail. Any job where I can get paid to code is better than 90% of the jobs out there.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#53

Post by wpietri »

commandlinefan wrote: post #17
PedroBatista wrote: post #9

This is generally true. It's a combination of many things, from brain "degradation", ageism, simple economic math ( fresh meat is cheaper and more malleable ), other more important interests like having a real life and when you really mute all the marketing BS, your delusions and wishful thinking, the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting is a really shitty job and sad life for the maj…

> the actual work of being a developer/programmer in a professional setting is a really shitty job and sad life The thing is, it doesn't have to be and, until relatively recently, honestly wasn't. It's a shitty job and a sad life because we have open offices, ticket-tracking systems and daily standups. There was a time when programming was exciting and rewarding.

For me daily stand-ups are a great tool for closely collaborating with colleagues. I get that managers have often turned them into top-down status report meetings. (And that almost anything "Agile" has similarly, despite initial aims, been turned into an instrument of control.) But my best working environments have been in strong teams, and I'd hate to see the baby get thrown out with the bathwater.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#54

Post by commandlinefan »

stuff4ben wrote: post #32

Mid-40's here. I'm in management but considering getting back into development/architecture. I've kept up with my skills in Java and DevOps and Kubernetes so I have a breadth of knowledge and skills that I know people are looking for. Management was my plan B and honestly I hate it.

A couple of years ago, the company I worked for abruptly went out of business (like, I came into work on Monday and they said, “we’re closed effectively immediately, go home, we’ll e-mail you severance details”). I sent out about a dozen resumes, got two interviews, flunked the first and got an offer at the second - the whole process took about two weeks and I was no longer unemployed. I was on good terms with one of the VP’s at that company, who also lives close to me - I ran into him about a year later and I asked him how things were and he said, “well, I’m still looking for a job…” We were both around the same age (over 40, anyway) - I’m not so sure management is as unemployment-proof as some of us have been led to believe.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#55

Post by twic »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #28
devoply wrote: post #2

Anyone have more data on this? What happens to programmers as they age, are they in fact unemployable?

The $64,000 question is "Does the experience and skills that you have as a 40+ year old make you worth hiring versus a junior developer or fresh graduate?" Unhappily for a number of people, the answer is "not really". This is not a profession in which one can coast. Every year in which you're not learning something that makes you a better and more capable professional, whether at your job or on your own time, is one…

I think software has a bit of an "up or out" mechanism built in. If you're 40 and a seasoned team lead, effective manager, unflappable consultant, wizardly engineer, or irreplaceable specialist, then you're fine. If you're 40 and just another serving of cannon fodder, you probably aren't.

I know plenty of people well over 40 who are going great guns in the software industry, in leadership or consulting roles. I also have one former colleague who, sadly, isn't - he was a senior developer at a company for several years, but got laid off; he's experienced, but not as quick as he once was, and doesn't have any particular special roles on his CV, so couldn't immediately bounce into another job.

I turn 40 next year, and can't honestly put myself into any of the categories i list above, so i should probably start worrying about this myself!

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#57

Post by commandlinefan »

inetknght wrote: post #24
Lendal wrote: post #14

I'm 50 and still programming. Programming is all I know how to do. If that was taken away from me, I would just rot to death. I don't want to be anything else, and I refuse to be forced to do something I don't want to do. I'll learn to farm and support myself that way. So, is it still preferable for the manager to not hire anyone and let the work sit undone rather than to be forced to work with a detestable "older" w…

> I'll learn to farm and support myself that way. With the climate apocalypse, that's becoming less and less likely.

Actually if everything folds in completely the way the alarmists are telling us it will, being able to grow your own food will be the only thing that will save you.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#58

Post by fastbeef »

The solution to this problem is as simple as it is revolting to programmers - realize that programming is a low-value task. The high-value task is solving business problems, if it happens so that programming is the easiest path then go for it. The real value to the business however, lies in domain expertise - something programmers are forced to become in order to be able to write code for it.

The trick is to find a domain that stable, fairly interesting and has enough companies so that you can jump around. I myself chose occupational pension insurance (kinda-sorta 401k but in EU) and spent the last year or so explaining fairly easy edge cases to top brass.

Re: Programmers: Before you turn 40, get a plan B (2009)

#59

Post by commandlinefan »

_bxg1 wrote: post #44
commandlinefan wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm over 40 - I found myself suddenly back on the job market a couple of years ago when the company I worked for abruptly went out of business. I was only out of work for three weeks before I found something else. I keep current, though - one of the realities of this profession is that you have to keep learning, and you have to do it "on your own time", if you want to stay in it. Personally, I find that to be a reaso…

What subfield do you work in? Size of company, languages/technologies, etc.

Mostly Java, but I went from a small healthcare-based company to a huge entertainment company - there's really no similarity there.
Post reply on HN