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Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

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Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#131

So far, most of the comments here are a good example of both why this happened and why it will happen again. When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it". When it turned out that it does send things you didn't intend, the response was "well, it's not like anyone is listening anyway". No…

> We really need mandatory ethics courses in CS.

We need a bit more than that. People do things they've been taught are wrong all the time. They do them somewhat less often when there's a structure in place to hold them accountable.

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#132

So far, most of the comments here are a good example of both why this happened and why it will happen again. When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it". When it turned out that it does send things you didn't intend, the response was "well, it's not like anyone is listening anyway". No…

> When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it".

This seems like a distorted representation, to support your argument, of what most the complaints and responses were. The gulf between 24/7 recording and "occasionally unintentional sending" is absolutely massive and you just merge them into "see, we were right".

The complaints were (and still are) conspiracy theories that they were streaming constant recordings and constantly listening; which they aren't; almost nobody is pretending this would be okay.

I've also not seen anyone who knows what they are talking about seriously claiming that /no person/ would ever listen to the audio samples - only that there isn't somebody _listening_ to your samples e.g. in a targeted, continual sense.

In fact the only part that does sound slightly worrying is that the evaluators get location information along with audio; this would probably be enough to reverse any ID anonymisation, and if the metadata is kept - requests by law enforcement, though I would hope the contractors couldn't control/request specific samples coming into them. In any case, Alexa is potentially worse than this because I can see a history and playback old recordings on my account, which means they are kept fully associated. Apple might do this with Siri internally, I don't know.

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When this story broke, I dipped into Apple’s terms of service myself and, though there are mentions of quality control for Siri and data being shared, I found that it did fall short of explicitly and plainly making it clear that live recordings, even short ones, are used in the process and may be transmitted and listened to. The implications of what they agree to are impossible to understand, by design. They're cra…

That's one thing I like with GDPR. It has to be informed consent for a lot of cases. Can't hide it and say you agreed to whatever in a hidden EULA.

Yup. And since they can't legally do much to infringe on my privacy without asking for my explicit, informed consent, I can safely ignore most TOS updates, safe in the knowledge that if they hide some privacy-abusing bits in the TOS, then they have a problem.

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#134
post #80

So far, most of the comments here are a good example of both why this happened and why it will happen again. When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it". When it turned out that it does send things you didn't intend, the response was "well, it's not like anyone is listening anyway". No…

> We really need mandatory ethics courses in CS. This is almost never going to happen because ethics=morals and there's no more middle ground to define what is right or wrong nowadays. You can see that already in every societal issue that divides people. Ethics courses would fall in the same pitfall: what is right or wrong depends on your system of values, and there's not much homogeneity in that realm now.

I had to take a general ethics course at my university. It was a feel-good circlejerk. Complete waste of time.

HNers firing off "we need ethics courses!" just reminds me of the same naive, empty decision making that my uni faculty must've gone through before deciding to force students through a course that was obviously really just there to put a feather in the uni's cap. "See? We do ethics training! See how we're making the world better? See us doing this, everyone?"

Things aren't black and white ethically either. I bet there are people here who seriously think Facebook wouldn't even exist if only Zuck had to take an ethics course.

Circlejerking seems to be the real thrust of it because, without a doubt, someone always brings up Canada's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual_of_the_Calling_of_an_En... as if it's some self-evidently amazing thing when all I see is more circlejerking: a private club with special purity rings. Yeah, that'll stop the bad people.

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#135
post #42

So far, most of the comments here are a good example of both why this happened and why it will happen again. When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it". When it turned out that it does send things you didn't intend, the response was "well, it's not like anyone is listening anyway". No…

I think this is a mischaracterization of what "the response" was except maybe from laypeople. The idea that real people's input was analyzed as part of the system (for Siri, Amazon etc) was always well documented and I never saw anything in the official documentation or the media response to these technologies that suggested otherwise. In my opinion it's only now which they see that they can capitalize on this misund…

[deleted]

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#136
So, Amazon, Google and now Apple have been "caught" doing this. Is Microsoft's Cortana doing it also on it's voice commands?

Also, wouldn't it make sense for EVERYONE to just use their own users to gauge if the voice is working as intended? Like, once in a while get a random "was this correct?" from the people using it, instead of strangers determining it.

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#138

So far, most of the comments here are a good example of both why this happened and why it will happen again. When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it". When it turned out that it does send things you didn't intend, the response was "well, it's not like anyone is listening anyway". No…

I feel like this time around, the new "clipper chip"-style push for mandatory backdoors will be seen the same way.

Re: Apple suspends Siri response grading in response to privacy concerns

#139

So far, most of the comments here are a good example of both why this happened and why it will happen again. When people complained that putting microphones in your home 24/7 was creepy, the response was "that's nonsense, Siri is not sending anything unless you specifically ask for it". When it turned out that it does send things you didn't intend, the response was "well, it's not like anyone is listening anyway". No…

What benefit would you expect from a mandatory ethics course?
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