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High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

sciencedaily.com

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Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#141

Post by meeks »

dang wrote: post #76
fortran77 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More likely obesity: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7083189/

We've asked you numerous times to avoid this topic on HN, since you've inundated threads with it in the past. That request stands, and if you keep breaking it, we're going to have to ban you again. I don't want to do that, so please refrain from going there here.

I don't have a dog in this fight, however, I am curious. Who exactly are you? Who is this "we" you are referencing? And why does this comment need to be avoided?

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#142

Post by rolltiide »

tick_tock_tick wrote: post #56
rolltiide wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, even at 7%, this autistic population could be creating the unfavorable perceptions of trans women and confirming people’s pre-existing beliefs of mental health issues because enough of their quirky or negative experiences with trans women are “just” with autistic people As in, one circumstance is being conflated with another circumstance and this is counterproductive for everyone

On the other hand what if it's not just conflated circumstances and there is some kind of interaction there. When there is an unusually large correlation between two unexpected things it normally merits further investigation.

Not inaccurate. People should research this further.

Good luck finding a way to say it.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#143

Post by im3w1l »

AstralStorm wrote: post #79
erikgaas wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I took a neuroscience course back in the day that discussed findings related to autism. I don't remember everything, but there was a discussion on excess dopamine early in the brain and a later depression of glutamate levels. All in all this would lead to more sparsity of neural activations in the brain. This made sense. Too much dopamine would lead to excess plasticity, causing a normal amount of glutamate to have t…

You're building a theoretical treatment based on a theory you have not validated. (I'm not aware of any reasonable validation in e.g. a model organism at least.) So, go back, and first check or devise a model. Model organism for autism is a very hard problem.

I guess this is "how it's done". But why should it be? As long as all the hypotheses he states can be directly measured in humans that should be enough.

Treating humans as black boxes isn't necessary anymore. We have very good measuring tools now. I believe we can make much faster progress if we just look inside and use logic inference.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#144

Post by Sharlin »

refurb wrote: post #126
wnevets wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO gene expression is very different than what layman like myself mean when we talk about our genes.

OK, fair point. In order for genes to have any impact on an organism they need to be expressed. And it's expression that creates the enzymes that create hormones. So it's hard to separate those two. Environmental exposure can change how genes are expressed and thus hormones.

But hormones are one of the things that affect gene expression in turn. There aren’t really many straightforward causal relationships in biology.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#145

Post by danharaj »

danbolt wrote: post #44
majos wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not parent, but closest thing I can find is the Kaltiala-Heino et al. study [1], found from p7 in this literature review [2]. There it's summarized as "26% of those who had experienced gender dysphoria had previous diagnosis of ASD". But that study has only 47 people (none adults), all drawn from a pair of Finnish hospitals. It looks like an outlier among the others, which suggest something more like 5%. [1] https://…

Thanks for posting the studies. This might be considered bad faith but the parent comment struck me as anecdotal and I wanted to press where those sources were coming from.

I didn't take your question as bad faith, I appreciate it actually, but I didn't have time during the work day to cite sources. The one posted is the most scientific one I know of. I have seen self reported surveys of transgender communities that hit numbers that high, but that's obviously not scientifically rigorous. Food for thought tho.

I keep myself informed on transgender issues because I have transgender people near and dear to me and I have transgender colleagues at work. In my personal life many of the transgender women I know identify as on the spectrum, some more intensely than others. 1 in 4 sounds right anecdotally as well.

Anecdotally, I think it might be true that younger people in general are more receptive to identifying as autistic while people my age or older might be averse to it even with the same experiences.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#146

Post by b_tterc_p »

bogwog wrote: post #40
Zenst wrote: post #13

Maybe so, though equally could just be a small part in a larger puzzle or even a red herring. However, as somebody who is on the autistic spectrum, I have noted that my index and "ring finger"[edit thanks to comment] are of equal lengths, a trait more common in females than males who tend to have one longer - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digit_ratio Another aspect/theory from personal experience is that my earli…

That digit ratio stuff has always weirded me out. There are even some studies that show certain ratios correspond with homosexuality. That wikipedia page even has a huge table with a list of stuff like having a high digit ratio corresponds to reduced financial trading ability, and a low digit ratio corresponds to a longer penis. That shit is weird.

It’s not that surprising. It’s just a second order effect of an important environmental factor at a critical development stage.

Hormones valances in the womb, as you mentioned, are likely a driver of homosexuality. And having kids changes the hormone balance, making some arrangements of sons and daughters more likely to be gay.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#147

Post by Zenst »

loceng wrote: post #129
Zenst wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to clarify, and just earliest memories and maybe trauma solidified those event in memory, really hard to speculate even from personal experience. Also of note I was diagnosed officially in my late 40's, I was tested for autism when I was 5 (remember that vividly) and they deemed me 50/50, which in the 60's - autism was either yes or no with no aspergers or other half-way definitions. Interesting how you mention…

What you've said overall makes me think you're hypersensitive to sound - and that if you can afford a ~$50 USD hearing test/audiogram to check for imbalances in your hearing then it'd be worthwhile confirming that; it's not a standard audiogram, you'd have to call around to ask and find out if they know what that is - and is meant for use with Berard's Auditory Integration Training) which then can confirm imbalances.…

"Do you remember having ear infections as a child, and were they painful at all" No, though tonsils often a source of discontent, so removed. Though nobody ever warned that they could grow back, though not a troublesome size. As for ear balance, no issue there.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#148

Post by danharaj »

meeks wrote: post #141
dang wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've asked you numerous times to avoid this topic on HN, since you've inundated threads with it in the past. That request stands, and if you keep breaking it, we're going to have to ban you again. I don't want to do that, so please refrain from going there here.

I don't have a dog in this fight, however, I am curious. Who exactly are you? Who is this "we" you are referencing? And why does this comment need to be avoided?

Dang is a moderator. Listen to the mods, even if you don't agree with them. It's a thankless task trust me.

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#149

Post by b_tterc_p »

lonelappde wrote: post #135
bogwog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That digit ratio stuff has always weirded me out. There are even some studies that show certain ratios correspond with homosexuality. That wikipedia page even has a huge table with a list of stuff like having a high digit ratio corresponds to reduced financial trading ability, and a low digit ratio corresponds to a longer penis. That shit is weird.

It's essentially a list of stereotypically male/female traits that correlate with testosterone/estrogen. And of course not a p-value or effect size is sight.

> And of course not a p-value or effect size is sight.

Because... it’s wikipedia and you wouldn’t expect to find those things

While I’m sure nobody thinks there is a casual relationship, you can find statistically significant effects on the digit ratio

Re: High levels of oestrogens in the womb linked to autism

#150

Post by derefr »

lonelappde wrote: post #140
derefr wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symptoms of being a high-functioning autistic—as perceived by others—include an inability to empathize with peers or with hypotheticals of “natural” human responses. But one obvious confounder for this symptom is that you’re comparing with the wrong peers. Being a woman but not liking the things women like or having the same emotional responses that women tend to have (because, instead, you like the things men like a…

1-2% of males are autistic. A female with stereotypically male traits isn't autistic on that basis.

One of the key things to know about high-functioning ASD is that it's underdiagnosed; which means that many people who have high-functioning ASD only figure out they're on the spectrum if someone points out to them (or their parents) that they "seem autistic"—and they then take that assertion seriously and ask a doctor.

People who are gender-nonconforming and/or trans, are more likely to have the main trigger event for being diagnosed with autism: being told that they seem autistic. Which will lead to more of them "being" autistic (in the medical-statistics sense, under which people who have ASD but are never diagnosed, get categorized as "neurotypical.")

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