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N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

nytimes.com

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Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#31

Post by moate »

imgabe wrote: post #18
cheeze wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not. I don't want my government spying on me. What if I was gay and was seen leaving a gay club? Now what if I ended up in the Kingdom of Saud and that data was shared or leaked?

If you're gay, you should know the risks about going to Saudi Arabia or any place with similar laws and avoid going there. One does not usually "end up" in a different country unless they're kidnapped and at that point the homosexuality laws are really the least of your problems.

The point is that the risks are much lower if there's not a database storing this information to be leaked in the first place.

The whole "if you don't want to go to jail, don't commit crimes" line of thinking really falls apart when you realize that the legal system is well beyond the ability for a layman to navigate on a day to day basis and gets even worse when you have a perfect surveillance state capable of seeing and storing massive amounts of data.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#32

Post by xwdv »

cheeze wrote: post #11
not_a_cop75 wrote: post #5

Honestly, I have no problem with a database of public images showing/tracking people's public actions. It used to be in a small town you knew who was good and bad by their actions. With the population explosion, the only way we have a practical means to return to that is with facial recognition databases.

You may not. I don't want my government spying on me. What if I was gay and was seen leaving a gay club? Now what if I ended up in the Kingdom of Saud and that data was shared or leaked?

First of all, there is a strict process in proving that someone is a homosexual in Saudi Arabia. It’s not as simple as “here’s some pictures of this guy leaving a gay club, execute him”. If it were that easy the system would be rife for abuse obviously, especially in an age where any image can be faked or taken out of context. Second, you can simply deny the images were even real, or that it was not you, and further increase the burden of proof required.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#33

Post by moate »

kumbel wrote: post #13

Can't this help with stuff like missing children? It's not clear why there would be age limits.

Better idea: You have a surveillance network capable of facial recognition. My child goes missing. The only way for you (the police and your network) to know about this is if I inform you. At that point, you can request images of the child and feed them into your machine to see if you can get a hit.

OPT IN is always the choice of liberty.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#34

Post by reaperducer »

maximente wrote: post #7

> “We have these photos. It makes sense,” Chief Shea said in the interview. ah, yeah, outstanding argument - looking forward to seeing it applied to all other electronic data ever produced, no matter how old they are

He also has a mailing list of all the police officers in his department. Why not make those public? It makes sense.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#35

Post by ilikehurdles »

imgabe wrote: post #28
ilikehurdles wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you avoid being born in a place like that?

If you're gay and were born in Saudi Arabia, and managed to get to a point where you're photographed leaving a gay club in NYC, then don't go back to Saudi Arabia.

Governments change, as do treatments of different groups of people. Perhaps the government had no issue with your practicing of a particular religion or being an immigrant before some disaster, war, or nationalist wave changes things.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#36

Post by heavenlyhash »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #19
cameronbrown wrote: post #3

I know that this might be an unpopular opinion, but if privacy really is dead, why don't we just make this data public? I know there's significant risks, but I feel like it's a better step forward than having this technology developed and deployed in secret.

Yes, transparency for all, and I mean all, is the only other way to balance the scales of power. It's either privacy for everyone, or transparency for all, but this in between is the worst where some entities get leverage over others because they have access to information that others don't have about them.

Right, so then we'll just have balanced power between everyone who can afford the AWS or other compute service bill do to the facial recognition matches against all those millions (and later, hundreds of millions, then billions) of records. That'll be...

Oh. Hm.

Maybe "privacy for everyone" is a better point to aim for.

The alternative seems to be no privacy as a baseline and then still results in an everybody-loses arms race to top it off.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#37

Post by imgabe »

ilikehurdles wrote: post #35
imgabe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're gay and were born in Saudi Arabia, and managed to get to a point where you're photographed leaving a gay club in NYC, then don't go back to Saudi Arabia.

Governments change, as do treatments of different groups of people. Perhaps the government had no issue with your practicing of a particular religion or being an immigrant before some disaster, war, or nationalist wave changes things.

And anyone can come up with some contrived chain of events about how any particular technology might be misused. That's not a reason to dismiss it wholesale, otherwise we would never have any technology at all.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#38

Post by lm28469 »

crazygringo wrote: post #25

Facial recognition helps catch criminals. Young people can be criminals too. And if the police catch them while still juvenile, they might have more of a chance to turn their life around. Young people can also go missing, and facial recognition of security cams could help find them. I honestly can't see any reason why children shouldn't be included like everyone else. It goes without saying that a conviction should n…

You can reuse that comment when we get mandatory under skin gps tracker from birth. We could even sacrifice all our liberties and get rid of every single crimes if we went further.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#39

Post by abugheratwork »

xwdv wrote: post #32
cheeze wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not. I don't want my government spying on me. What if I was gay and was seen leaving a gay club? Now what if I ended up in the Kingdom of Saud and that data was shared or leaked?

First of all, there is a strict process in proving that someone is a homosexual in Saudi Arabia. It’s not as simple as “here’s some pictures of this guy leaving a gay club, execute him”. If it were that easy the system would be rife for abuse obviously, especially in an age where any image can be faked or taken out of context. Second, you can simply deny the images were even real, or that it was not you, and further…

Assuming everything you say is true ... your point is what? This hypothetical person would probably not be executed? Going through a trial for your own sexual orientation but being acquitted doesn't sound like a great time to me.

Re: N.Y.P.D. Adds Children as Young as 11 to Facial Recognition Database

#40

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

lm28469 wrote: post #38
crazygringo wrote: post #25

Facial recognition helps catch criminals. Young people can be criminals too. And if the police catch them while still juvenile, they might have more of a chance to turn their life around. Young people can also go missing, and facial recognition of security cams could help find them. I honestly can't see any reason why children shouldn't be included like everyone else. It goes without saying that a conviction should n…

You can reuse that comment when we get mandatory under skin gps tracker from birth. We could even sacrifice all our liberties and get rid of every single crimes if we went further. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children

There is a big difference between your skin gps tracker and facial recognition. The skin gps tracker is a new data source. Facial recognition is making better use of already existing data from mug shots and security cameras.

If you are concerned about privacy, then let's regulate what data you can collect and from whom you can collect it. However, once you have the data, police should be able to use computers to better understand, filter, and generally make the data more useful to solving crimes.

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