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Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

themarshallproject.org

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Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#11

Post by tyingq »

ProCicero wrote: post #10
chrisco255 wrote: post #4

“Probably 95 percent of the people that are charged with something are guilty of something,” she asserted. “They may not be guilty of what they’re exactly charged with, but they may be guilty of a lesser offense, okay? … And you have probably 90 percent of those people who are looking for the best deal possible.” What a disturbing quote and very telling about the state of our justice system.

When you work with the assumption that police usually only arrest a person when they have strong evidence that person actually committed the crime, it's not that surprising. Whether that is a good working assumption to begin with is another debate.

Most people unwittingly commit lots of crimes.

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#12

Post by tyingq »

CamJN wrote: post #3

> In the past five years, she has taken 3,802 cases, including 1,787 new felonies, according to data from Michigan’s Third Judicial Circuit Court. That’s more than one felony case every workday—excluding the ones involving simple probation violations, which Cameron also takes hundreds of each year. 3802/(5*365.25) ≈ 2.08 cases per day, every day in those five years including weekends, not just "more than one per work…

She probably has a spreadsheet or similar that the DA has (off the record) agreed to that calculates plea deals. Then most of the work goes to her staff.

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#13

Post by dv_dt »

ProCicero wrote: post #10
chrisco255 wrote: post #4

“Probably 95 percent of the people that are charged with something are guilty of something,” she asserted. “They may not be guilty of what they’re exactly charged with, but they may be guilty of a lesser offense, okay? … And you have probably 90 percent of those people who are looking for the best deal possible.” What a disturbing quote and very telling about the state of our justice system.

When you work with the assumption that police usually only arrest a person when they have strong evidence that person actually committed the crime, it's not that surprising. Whether that is a good working assumption to begin with is another debate.

It's a poor assumption that violates due process and presumption of innocence. Applying the assumption makes our current justice system act in the manner that is similar to some of the original complaints of American revolutionaries about British colonial rule.

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#15

Post by akulkarni7 »

anywherenotes wrote: post #9
chrisco255 wrote: post #4

“Probably 95 percent of the people that are charged with something are guilty of something,” she asserted. “They may not be guilty of what they’re exactly charged with, but they may be guilty of a lesser offense, okay? … And you have probably 90 percent of those people who are looking for the best deal possible.” What a disturbing quote and very telling about the state of our justice system.

There's a podcast, by the name: 'Serial', in season two they go into regular courtrooms with non-fancy cases - fights, etc. In one episode after the defendant has been found not guilty, the judge presiding over the case berated them for not accepting a plea deal, and wasting the court time. This is after the person has been found not guilty.

season three

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#16

Post by radcon »

chrisco255 wrote: post #4

“Probably 95 percent of the people that are charged with something are guilty of something,” she asserted. “They may not be guilty of what they’re exactly charged with, but they may be guilty of a lesser offense, okay? … And you have probably 90 percent of those people who are looking for the best deal possible.” What a disturbing quote and very telling about the state of our justice system.

This is why selective / arbitrary enforcement of the law is dangerous -- everyone breaks some kind of law every day. If the government gets to choose when (or if) the law is applied, then it's no different from tyranny. There are so many laws that even Congress can't keep track of just the federal ones[1]. Then there are state laws, local laws, regulations from organizations like the FAA or motor vehicle departments, etc.

[1] https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2013/03/frequent-reference-questio...

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#17

Post by exhilaration »

tyingq wrote: post #12
CamJN wrote: post #3

> In the past five years, she has taken 3,802 cases, including 1,787 new felonies, according to data from Michigan’s Third Judicial Circuit Court. That’s more than one felony case every workday—excluding the ones involving simple probation violations, which Cameron also takes hundreds of each year. 3802/(5*365.25) ≈ 2.08 cases per day, every day in those five years including weekends, not just "more than one per work…

She probably has a spreadsheet or similar that the DA has (off the record) agreed to that calculates plea deals. Then most of the work goes to her staff.

After reading the article, I'm pretty sure she doesn't have any staff.

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#18

Post by [deleted] »

anywherenotes wrote: post #9
chrisco255 wrote: post #4

“Probably 95 percent of the people that are charged with something are guilty of something,” she asserted. “They may not be guilty of what they’re exactly charged with, but they may be guilty of a lesser offense, okay? … And you have probably 90 percent of those people who are looking for the best deal possible.” What a disturbing quote and very telling about the state of our justice system.

There's a podcast, by the name: 'Serial', in season two they go into regular courtrooms with non-fancy cases - fights, etc. In one episode after the defendant has been found not guilty, the judge presiding over the case berated them for not accepting a plea deal, and wasting the court time. This is after the person has been found not guilty.

[deleted]

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#19

Post by tynpeddler »

Here's a serious question, what's preventing the pool of public defenders and the DA's from being the same people? Would lawyers in this position be influenced to throw defense cases for the sake of their police and judge buddies? Would they be willing to accept the potential professional consequences of having an abysmal defense record? Such a system could provide a lot of incentive for attorneys to maintain a more professional and appropriate relationship with law enforcement, but there may also be confounding factors I'm not seeing.

Philosophically, DA's and public defenders fulfill a similar role in society. They both serve the public in fact-finding for criminal investigations through an adversarial process before a court of law. Depriving defendants of competent council severely undermines the entire process.

Re: Detroit’s Indigent Defense System Fails Poor Defendants

#20

Post by jandrese »

ProCicero wrote: post #10
chrisco255 wrote: post #4

“Probably 95 percent of the people that are charged with something are guilty of something,” she asserted. “They may not be guilty of what they’re exactly charged with, but they may be guilty of a lesser offense, okay? … And you have probably 90 percent of those people who are looking for the best deal possible.” What a disturbing quote and very telling about the state of our justice system.

When you work with the assumption that police usually only arrest a person when they have strong evidence that person actually committed the crime, it's not that surprising. Whether that is a good working assumption to begin with is another debate.

And then the police operate on the assumption that in ambiguous cases they should err on the side of catching the potential criminal and let the courts sort it out.
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