Norweigan oil fund • Hacker News Board

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#251

Post by refurb » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

rfwhyte wrote: post #216

One of the most mind blowing things to me, is that where I'm from (Canada) we've pumped almost 2.5 times more oil and gas than Nowrway over the past 30 years, yet our "oil fund" is somewhere around $20 Billion. Norway decided the benefits of resource extraction should be universal, while my country decided that the benefits should go to the wealthy and multi-national corporations.

The wealthy? You do realize the gov't has a per barrel royalty on each barrel extracted. And that's why some provinces are wealthier than others?

What a odd comment.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#252

Post by kristofferR » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #205

lordnacho wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's about being developed, vs being about having a high-trust society? In a lot of places people will immediately get suspicious if you say you're setting up a government fund to hold everyone's money. For the benefit of society, of course.

It's about Norwegian climate: you don't work - you freeze to death in winter. In a dozen of generations an idea that everyone must work hard becomes an obvious thing.

As a Norwegian this is quite funny. At least the last few decades we've been super focused on not working too hard to such a degree that it's often characterized as national lazyness by the Norwegian press. If a Thursday is a national holiday it is VERY common to take Friday, and maybe Monday off too.

We look down on many countries, like the US, because they tend to overwork and prioritize work over life.

Our success, like the oil fund and high ratings, has much more to do with a series of smart efforts on building a mutually beneficial society where people trust each other, the media, businesses, the police, the government etc than just hard work. Many people from all around the work hard, but just hard work doesn't lead to good societies. In fact the mantra of "hard work" often leads to the opposite - survival of the fittest to the detriment of others.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#253

Post by dg4 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

It's interesting to me that they don't appear to hold private equity or venture funds, unless I'm missing something. Presumably at that scale they have unlimited access to any asset class in the world. Does anyone have any insight as to why they might be avoiding those?

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#254

Post by AlexTWithBeard » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #184

pytester wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except every other oil dominated country - e.g. Iraq, Libya, half of Africa is more like Venezuela (worse even), than Norway. The oil curse is very real and, for Venezuela, largely unavoidable.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but most of those other countries have not nationalized their oil (or at least the profits) like Venezuela and Norway have.

But I'm sure they're taxing natural resources exploration at a pretty high rate.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#255

Post by KFC_Manager » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #225

KFC_Manager wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgot the link to the energy maps https://e-reports-ext.llnl.gov/pdf/473335.pdf

Those are a little hard to compare since the green square for petroleum is the same size reagrdelss of number. But ignoring that, Norway's chart don't seem that different from Iran, Iraq etc. What did you intend to demonstrate via these charts.

Definitely similar and the green cubes dont really show scale per capita at all. Didnt try to demonstrate anything other than to show some context for where Norways energy resources go compared to other countries.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#256

Post by hcurtiss » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #231

ashaikh wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fundamental difference is that for Americans, natural resources are owned by the individual property owner rather than the state. If you find oil on your land in the US, it is yours and you decide what to do with it. In most other countries if there is oil on your land, the government has the exclusive right to oil (or other sub-surface minerals).

Lol. No. Usually where there are significant amounts of minerals, there are separate mineral rights. Mineral rights trump surface ownership, and usually the rights were sold off decades or centuries ago. If you find something under your property, it probably doesn't belong to you. Also, state laws vary in weird ways. Should you find gold in New York, it's the property of the state.

Outside developed oil or coal plays, severed mineral estates in the US are the exception, not the rule. Also, to the point above, those severed mineral interests are almost always privately held.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#257

Post by laurencerowe » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

kwhitefoot wrote: post #149

throwaway2019V wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an order of a magnitude. Even then, so, Venezuela produces 1/5th per capita the oil of Norway. Why doesn't there exist a fund with $37k/person in Venezuela?

You could ask a similar question of the UK.

The UK has the same amount of oil spread across 12x as many people. Yes, the Tories wasted it but it could never have had the same impact on the whole UK that it had on Norway. Perhaps if Scotland had been independent (most of the UK's oil is in its waters) it would have been similar.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#258

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

AlexTWithBeard wrote: post #205

lordnacho wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's about being developed, vs being about having a high-trust society? In a lot of places people will immediately get suspicious if you say you're setting up a government fund to hold everyone's money. For the benefit of society, of course.

It's about Norwegian climate: you don't work - you freeze to death in winter. In a dozen of generations an idea that everyone must work hard becomes an obvious thing.

[deleted]

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#259

Post by laurencerowe » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

smcl wrote: post #232

rfwhyte wrote: post #216

One of the most mind blowing things to me, is that where I'm from (Canada) we've pumped almost 2.5 times more oil and gas than Nowrway over the past 30 years, yet our "oil fund" is somewhere around $20 Billion. Norway decided the benefits of resource extraction should be universal, while my country decided that the benefits should go to the wealthy and multi-national corporations.

Same as the UK. This was an opportunity squandered, and we can only look to Norway and think of what might have been

It would not have been the same since the UK has a similar amount of oil and 12x the number of people. Proportionately it was far less significant.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#260

Post by hcurtiss » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

navigatesol wrote: post #213

coliveira wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But what to say about Americans, who squandered natural resources to help the rich, and now the funding to their own social security is en route to insolvency?

> But what to say about Americans, who squandered natural resources Yeah, they squandered their natural resources on the way to becoming the richest, most powerful nation in the history of the planet... How can people say things like this with a straight face? The fact that there are some tough political issues that have or may span a couple decades doesn't erase centuries of history, or millennia of future prospects…

Exactly right. Many Americans are so ashamed of the US, when in many ways it's a shining example of how to do things right -- certainly relative to many other countries. The US is a spectacularly prosperous country, and all it seems anyone talks about is how to fundamentally change the systems that made it that way. There are always in which a society can improve, but man -- let's not forget what's worked well.