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Norweigan oil fund

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Re: Norweigan oil fund

#181

Post by ASalazarMX »

lnsru wrote: post #28

Wow! These people must be extraordinary to use oil money this way! Not kidding! Never been in Norway, but in countries I have ever been this would be barely possible due to corruption and the needs of the politician’s buddies. Like yachts, private jets, Bentleys and Vertu phones. This $186k/person isn’t far from what average German poses: https://www.bundesbank.de/resource/blob/617492/cd59713c156ad...

I'm sure many crooks are salivating and dreaming ways to get their hands on that money. Impressive governance.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#182

Post by cheeky78 »

dcbadacd wrote: post #116
cheeky78 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's based on oil, which is contributing to climate change..and not 100% is not used for renewable energy, so it's a net negative. It's strange to me that people aren't protesting and complaining about this fund, when it's a big issue for future.

Oil isn't going anywhere soon, this is the least evil thing you can do and we should do so with all oil money.

So I'm supposed to believe that a certain party in the US wants to rip out all of our infrastructure reliant on oil and completely replace it with something new..because fossil fuels will destroy the world in 10 years.

Yet Norway, which is pumping out said oil and making billions of dollars in the process, is perfectly okay because they are using a fraction of it for renewable energy research?

Climate change has nothing to do with science and everything to do with politics if this is the case.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#183

Post by js2 »

mruts wrote: post #134
spamizbad wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America should seriously consider nationalizing its resources and using that money to either fund programs to reverse the trend of its declining life expectancy or at the very least reduce the deficit (and perhaps, one day, bootstrap a sovereign wealth fund of its own)

One of my clients at my old finance firm was Alaska’s oil fund. They do pretty well for themselves and dole out 2k/year in cash to everyone living there. It’s unsurprisingly a very popular program, though I’m kind of morally opposed to a government function like that.

The amount varies from year to year. It's mostly been less than 2k.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Permanent_Fund#Annual_i...

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#184

Post by lr4444lr »

pytester wrote: post #62
lr4444lr wrote: post #34

The Norwegian success is the single biggest piece of evidence as to why the Venezuelan catastrophe was largely avoidable, and the fault of irresponsible leadership.

Except every other oil dominated country - e.g. Iraq, Libya, half of Africa is more like Venezuela (worse even), than Norway. The oil curse is very real and, for Venezuela, largely unavoidable.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but most of those other countries have not nationalized their oil (or at least the profits) like Venezuela and Norway have.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#185

Post by SteveGregory »

cagenut wrote: post #85
lr4444lr wrote: post #34

The Norwegian success is the single biggest piece of evidence as to why the Venezuelan catastrophe was largely avoidable, and the fault of irresponsible leadership.

I can't stand this ideological sports-team type of commentary, so just to add some real information and context (after my downvote): Venezuela produces ~70k barrels per person per day. Norway produces a little more than half as much total oil, but with one-sixth the population it works out to ~330k barrels per person per day. An order of magnitude per-capita difference.

First, a nitpick - your numbers should be per million people, not per person:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ...

Second - the output itself depends on management, so I'm not sure it would be fair to compare current production numbers to show the potential help to the population. In fact - Venezuela has more proven reserves per-capita than Norway, by an incredible margin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_proven_oi...

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#186

Post by buboard »

godelski wrote: post #154
buboard wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why i can't fathom why every business would not raise their prices to match the UBI minimum. I mean it's not like there would be anyone who can't afford that.

Because UBI could open their market to more people. If they can make the same profit per person but increase their market size, why raise prices? That prices out more people. In fact this is commonly done now. You sell at a competitive price to expand your market share. It's exactly the tactic of companies like Amazon and Walmart. The problem is if a company has a monopoly and the good is a necessity.

> If they can make the same profit per person but increase their market size, why raise prices

There is no dichotomy here- their market size increases magically with UBI. If the answer to that question was even remotely close to yes, the tech sector would be full of hungry workers.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#187

Post by SuoDuanDao »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #109
Ididntdothis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is anybody claiming otherwise? It seems pretty obvious that someone there messed up majorly for a long time.

There are people who for ideological reasons blame all of Venezuela's woes on external factors. Then again, there are some for ideological reasons who claim external factors haven't made things worse than the terrible leadership has made it. Not sure of the ratio of blame that should go to internal leadership versus external factors but it does seem like poor leadership has made it easier for external forces to worse…

There is also the fact that, with the American playbook for regime change being what it is, there is quite a lot of skepticism about the sudden surge to prominence in the news cycle about the governance woes of a very oil-rich nation, irrespective of how legitimate reports of the mismanagement actually are.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#188

Post by buboard »

lordnacho wrote: post #161
buboard wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway was lucky to be a very developed society before oil was discovered. In most countries oil is a curse

I wonder if it's about being developed, vs being about having a high-trust society? In a lot of places people will immediately get suspicious if you say you're setting up a government fund to hold everyone's money. For the benefit of society, of course.

> I wonder if it's about being developed, vs being about having a high-trust society?

Thats a virtuous loop. You institutions work because you trust that strangers trust your institutions.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#189

Post by kwhitefoot »

vidarh wrote: post #162
punnerud wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sales tax is 25% (lower on food + public transport). Income tax is close to 50% for most of people (progressive), in addition there is a 14% tax per employee that the companies have to pay. If you take out dividend there is a 25% tax that don't earn you pension.

The top marginal tax rate band is around 50%. Very few people pay that much income tax, or anywhere near it so it's highly misleading most people is near it. A large portion of the population are close to seeing a small portion of their income taxed at the marginal rates because Norwegian incomes are unusually flat and high, yes. But according to OECD taxing wages 2019, the median tax and social security contribution…

You can calculate what you would pay using

    https://skattekalkulator2018.app.skatteetaten.no/?aar=2018&alder=63&alderEF&kommune&locale=en_UK&sivilstand=UGIFT&tolvdelVedArbeidsoppholdINorge=12&tolvdelVedArbeidsoppholdINorgeEF=12&vilHaTolvdel=false
For an unmarried person with 500 kNOK income (56288 USD), no debts, no investments, and a house worth 2 000 kNOK (225152 USD) the annual tax is

    134 991 NOK
That's just short of 27%.

Someone with an income of 300 kNOK and a home worth 1 000 kNOK the tax pays half that:

    61 571 NOK
About 20.5%.

If you have children you pay less tax.

Re: Norweigan oil fund

#190

Post by jandrewrogers »

logicchains wrote: post #128
michaeljohansen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norwegian software developer here. I pay my taxes with pleasure, knowing that the money supported my education, my ability to go to the hospital, good roads, good airports, and lots of other public functions that are great because we collectively invest in them. I think anything below 20% in taxes simply means a country's public functions will suffer. It's weird to me that Americans have so much against taxes. If a c…

Take a look at what the American government budget is spent on: https://www.nationalpriorities.org/budget-basics/federal-bud... (scroll down to "Total Federal Spending 2015"). The three largest parts of the spending pie, constituting over two thirds of government spending, are "Social Security, Unemployment and Labor", "Medicare and Health", and "Military". Less than 20% goes to education/infrastructure. Many conserv…

Less than 20% of Federal spending goes to education and infrastructure because the States pay for most education and infrastructure, it is misleading to only use Federal numbers for services provided primarily by States.

The US spends more on K-12 education alone than on the military.

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