Advertising Is a Cancer on Society • Hacker News Board

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#591

Post by jniedrauer » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

cameronbrown wrote: post #579

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's far more authoritarian to promote industries that spend outrageous sums on manipulating people into harming their own health, with incredibly expensive social and personal consequences. It's absolutely and completely false to frame this as a government vs individual issue. It's actually corporate propaganda vs the individual. No one who supports individual freedom has any business encouraging corporate propagand…

I'm not really disagreeing with you. Like I said if we had more warning labels and less corporate branding I'd be perfectly fine with that. I'm yet to be convinced that Coca-Cola is as bad as cigarettes and needs to be totally banned/heavily taxed though. You know the one of the things the worse off in society enjoy doing? - drinking a soda. They need to know the health risks, yes, but taking that away/adding a sin t…

> You know the one of the things the worse off in society enjoy doing? - drinking a soda.

Wait, what? This exact same argument could be made for cigarettes or hard narcotics. This argument is a non-starter. Especially since advertising is targeted at this demographic to convince them that a sugar addiction makes them less miserable.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#592

Post by dwild » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:27 PM UTC

Zeklandia wrote: post #418

dwild wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed in the past but now that my SO has started an escape room, if your ideal world existed, she would be bankrupt right now. Most ads isn't about manipulation, it's just about getting your attention and reminding you that this product exists. Ads are the only way to reach her market. You could argue that search is a good one too (which is true), but sadly people have trouble paying to watch videos onl…

If you have to tell people they need something then they don't need it. Escape rooms are an entertainment luxury. When there is essential work that needs to be done (infrastructure, healthcare, education, &c.), it makes sense that it takes psychological manipulation to convince people that what they really need to do with their time and effort is temporary entertainment. If you want more customers, provide something…

> If you have to tell people they need something then they don't need it.

None of the ads we got say to anyone that they need it. No one thinks that they need it when they see it.

What the ads say is that we exist. When they look for entertainment, and the debate isn't about whether entertainment should or not exist, they see us in the search engine (which is ads financed). When they search for movie theater (which is not related to our business, so it's fair that Google doesn't show our business in the results), they see us.

Actually, it's not even possible trying to convince people that they need us, even if we would want to. We NEED to target people that want entertainment because that's already pretty expensive for us to do.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#593

Post by dwild » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:30 PM UTC

flukus wrote: post #518

dwild wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed in the past but now that my SO has started an escape room, if your ideal world existed, she would be bankrupt right now. Most ads isn't about manipulation, it's just about getting your attention and reminding you that this product exists. Ads are the only way to reach her market. You could argue that search is a good one too (which is true), but sadly people have trouble paying to watch videos onl…

> Most ads isn't about manipulation, it's just about getting your attention and reminding you that this product exists. That is manipulation. If they weren't actively thinking about visiting one or actively looking for things to do and your advertising convinced them to do it then you've manipulated them into doing something the otherwise wouldn't have.

> If they weren't actively thinking about visiting one or actively looking for things to do and your advertising convinced them to do it

... which is exactly what our ads are doing. None of the targetting that we do is related to anything else than entertainment, or activities to do. I even had to black list plenty of keywords that triggered our ads, some for prostitution service even.

Believe me, if we weren't targetting like that, it would cost WAY TOO MUCH. I'm pretty happy right now with an average 4.95% of CTR for the past 2 weeks.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#594

Post by godDLL » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

While I understand both the purpose (cultivate desire, entice, inform) and the necessity (forward movement, economy, business) of advertising, I'd still like to get about my life without it. Unhindered by it.

The noise to signal ratio of the modern Internet is such that I, as a technical person, someone that finds it preferable to read instead of listen or watch; I still find myself on Youtube 99% of the time. Almost all of my web browsing is now Youtube. AND I HATE IT.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#595

Post by dwild » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:36 PM UTC

Fnoord wrote: post #295

dwild wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have agreed in the past but now that my SO has started an escape room, if your ideal world existed, she would be bankrupt right now. Most ads isn't about manipulation, it's just about getting your attention and reminding you that this product exists. Ads are the only way to reach her market. You could argue that search is a good one too (which is true), but sadly people have trouble paying to watch videos onl…

> I would have agreed in the past but now that my SO has started an escape room, if your ideal world existed, she would be bankrupt right now. In the old days, if her product -in this case escape room- would be good, she'd get enough customers by word of mouth alone.

> In the old days, if her product -in this case escape room- would be good, she'd get enough customers by word of mouth alone.

We get clients from 5 m away to 300 km away. The product is great, on a few thousand client, only an handful weren't happy.

> she'd get enough customers by word of mouth alone.

Word of mouth works when there are enough people to listen to it that may be interested in the experience. I'm a fervent believer that anyone can enjoy it, but let be honest, not everyone believes that being locked somewhere is fun ;). Believe me, it's a complaint that we hear often from our client that they weren't able to convince people around them about how awesome escape rooms are.

There's actually money to be made in something that could allow people to find others people to do escape room together, it's something that I often see people asking for in escape room communities.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#596

Post by araneae » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

How old is your daughter?

> This is why my kid isn't going to watch YouTube. If and when we decide to show her any children's show, it'll be from a manually curated set of videos downloaded and streamed from a NAS.

Until what age? I doubt this resolve will last until 18, particularly when they become old enough to know what their friends are watching. The vast majority of video content isn't legally downloadable, and even illegal downloading is a bit difficult because children's shows aren't as widely shared as content aimed at adults. (Even really popular shows like Paw Patrol have surprisingly limited availability.)

If you want to limit ad exposure, using subscription services like Netflix is more practical, as does purchasing shows on a per show basis on YouTube (which granted gets very expensive). Public broadcasting is also typically ad free; in the UK we have iplayer which has ad-free children's programming available for streaming.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#597

Post by justforyou » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #381

justforyou wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're basing this on anecdotal evidence, I've worked with entire departments who ate cake or ice-cream every day. That doesn't mean cake and cookies should be banned, nor should soda. It's nanny state nonsense, and one of the more steeply graded slippery slopes... If you're really concerned for people's wellbeing, ensuring access to healthcare goes a lot further than denying people snacks..

Really? Entire departments that ate cake and ice cream every day of the year? Where was this and why?

It was at one of the behemoths now owned by IB.

As to why, clearly it was due to people wanting to eat pleasurable food.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#598

Post by homonculus1 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #552

cameronbrown wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. I'm more than happy for more labels saying how bad sugary drinks are - like a less extreme version of smoking warnings - but taking a choice away for someone because you think you know better is authoritarian, even if we're only talking about a drink.

It's far more authoritarian to promote industries that spend outrageous sums on manipulating people into harming their own health, with incredibly expensive social and personal consequences. It's absolutely and completely false to frame this as a government vs individual issue. It's actually corporate propaganda vs the individual. No one who supports individual freedom has any business encouraging corporate propagand…

You're talking about banning advertising, I'm talking about banning products. It would be ass-backwards to ban soda itself and claim you're enabling free choice.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#599

Post by Fnoord » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

dwild wrote: post #595

Fnoord wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would have agreed in the past but now that my SO has started an escape room, if your ideal world existed, she would be bankrupt right now. In the old days, if her product -in this case escape room- would be good, she'd get enough customers by word of mouth alone.

> In the old days, if her product -in this case escape room- would be good, she'd get enough customers by word of mouth alone. We get clients from 5 m away to 300 km away. The product is great, on a few thousand client, only an handful weren't happy. > she'd get enough customers by word of mouth alone. Word of mouth works when there are enough people to listen to it that may be interested in the experience. I'm a fer…

My SO has claustrophobia. I'm pretty sure she won't enjoy it. I've never done it, but I like the challenge of a puzzle element combined with working together. I don't think such is for everyone. What I've learned from gaming is that a lot of people (most) don't want to be challenged, and M&S (morons & slackers) tend to get away in groups. In general, people just want to be entertained.

> [...]

> There's actually money to be made in something that could allow people to find others people to do escape room together, it's something that I often see people asking for in escape room communities.

Especially something with a small community could use this exposure of word of mouth, or having a platform for their community. You could also be part of the things to do list with the local tourism bureau.

The problem is a lack of standardization/consensus on communication method. You could use Facebook for this, or Mastodon, or Discord, or Slack, or Discourse, or Subreddit, or ... someone with authority just has to pick one, make it half decent, spread it by word of mouth, and you're done. If you can find volunteers for this, great. Otherwise, escape rooms could make a non-profit for this to maintain it. Of course, an escape room in Poland can afford to pay less for membership than one in San Francisco.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#600

Post by solidsnack9000 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:57 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #219

solidsnack9000 wrote: post #3

Maybe some of it...but without any advertising at all it would be really hard to know what products or out there or even that there is a restaurant on the other end of the block.

A restaurant on the end of the block can be discovered with even a minimal amount of awareness of one’s surroundings. Products can be displayed in stores or listed in catalogues.

One doesn't have that awareness when one is traveling. Many a time I've been helped by a well designed ad, posted on a wall or in the street, in a language I don't know but with an arrow and clear pictures of food and coffee.