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Dwindling CPAN Releases

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Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#51

Post by autoexec »

avian wrote: post #35
mattbillenstein wrote: post #26

Large Perl codebases are terrible - let it die.

Perl more than any other language I know depends on the self-restraint of the programmer to write readable code and not be overly clever with their syntax. I’ve worked on some large Perl codebases in the past that were as readable and maintainable as, say, Python.

Yeah, I've seen perl programs so broken down into simple procedural steps that non-coders were able to go in, understand what it was doing and even make some of the changes they needed after a little trial and error, but also other programs so concise and/or confusing that I'd rather rewrite it than try to figure out how it works.

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#52

Post by mehrdadn »

trabant00 wrote: post #49
_rrnv wrote: post #9

Consider this: Perl codebase is reaching perfection and no longer needs releases. After this, we get eternal Perl ;)

From a experienced linux sysadmin point of view perl5 is as good as it gets. I've been searching for alternatives for about 10 years now, at first because my novice self was heaving headaches reading other people code and even my own. I hated perl but I hated everything else even more as I came to know them. No autovivification? Some assignments copy the data and some create references and you need to memorize the co…

> No autovivification?

Wow, thanks. I had been looking for this word to explain what happens in awk. Now I know what it's called!

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#53

Post by ajsnigrutin »

trabant00 wrote: post #49
_rrnv wrote: post #9

Consider this: Perl codebase is reaching perfection and no longer needs releases. After this, we get eternal Perl ;)

From a experienced linux sysadmin point of view perl5 is as good as it gets. I've been searching for alternatives for about 10 years now, at first because my novice self was heaving headaches reading other people code and even my own. I hated perl but I hated everything else even more as I came to know them. No autovivification? Some assignments copy the data and some create references and you need to memorize the co…

It's not perfect, but it does it job, and usually it's simpler/faster to write code than in some other langues (usually with the cost of worse readability).

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#55

Post by roryrjb »

mattbillenstein wrote: post #44
isostatic wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used python for a bit but switched to Perl because it 1) Works 2) Is ubiquitous 3) Is stable 4) Is normal (semicolons, braces etc)

> 1) Works Almost anything can "work" > 2) Is ubiquitous So is awk, don't write software in it. > 3) Is stable This will become questionable as Perl slips into non-maintained mode. > 4) Is normal (semicolons, braces etc) Perl syntax is very far from "normal"

Perl is a general purpose programming language. The Perl interpreter and language are stable, it's not going anywhere soon. Perl and its syntax have been around a lot longer than most other languages and is very similar to C, C++, JavaScript and PHP. What do you consider normal syntax?

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#56

Post by [deleted] »

isostatic wrote: post #46
unmole wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2) Is ubiquitous On which systems do you have Perl readily available but not Python?

Which version of python? Perl documentation online applys to versions of perl that are installed. Python stuff is all bleeding edge - you'll research why something isn't working and after 30 minutes find it's expecting python 3.7. The whole concept of "virtualenv" gives me an impression of fragility I don't get with perl.

[deleted]

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#57

Post by Arnt »

lmm wrote: post #34
Arnt wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the small perl codebases I have are great. I have a crontab that runs every five minutes: 30 lines that use one CPAN module, no bugs in years. The code has the kind of hackiness that's okay when it fits on one screen, and it fits on one screen precisely because of that hackiness.

It's very hard to know which codebases will grow to be large - every codebase starts out small, and by the time you realise it's going to be big, rewriting into another language is expensive. Better to use a language that can scale to small codebases and large, that can accommodate hackiness and cleanness alike.

Nicely put, but I notice that you avoid names and numbers.

How expensive can it be to rewrite a hundred or a thousand lines, if a perl script keeps growing? And what are these languages (you use plural so I do too) that are optimal for every case?

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#58

Post by tus88 »

latchkey wrote: post #48
tus88 wrote: post #19

It's interesting. I started Perl in around 2005, and moved entirely to Python in 2014, exactly when it reached it's peak and started to decline. Seems I wasn't the only one.

Now I feel old, I started with Perl 4 around 1992-1993. There wasn't even a CGI query args parser library yet, you had to roll your own.

What kind of web server would even be calling Perl CGI scripts in 1992? I thought it was all bulletin boards back then. Personally I just got my first PC and was learning to play Commander Keen in 1992 ;-)

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#59

Post by abacadaba »

trabant00 wrote: post #49
_rrnv wrote: post #9

Consider this: Perl codebase is reaching perfection and no longer needs releases. After this, we get eternal Perl ;)

From a experienced linux sysadmin point of view perl5 is as good as it gets. I've been searching for alternatives for about 10 years now, at first because my novice self was heaving headaches reading other people code and even my own. I hated perl but I hated everything else even more as I came to know them. No autovivification? Some assignments copy the data and some create references and you need to memorize the co…

Pretty sure if perl5 had only had multi-dimensional arrays it would still rule the world.

Re: Dwindling CPAN Releases

#60

Post by jai_ »

trabant00 wrote: post #49
_rrnv wrote: post #9

Consider this: Perl codebase is reaching perfection and no longer needs releases. After this, we get eternal Perl ;)

From a experienced linux sysadmin point of view perl5 is as good as it gets. I've been searching for alternatives for about 10 years now, at first because my novice self was heaving headaches reading other people code and even my own. I hated perl but I hated everything else even more as I came to know them. No autovivification? Some assignments copy the data and some create references and you need to memorize the co…

Out of interest, what do you feel is holding back Perl 6 from being a replacement for Perl 5 in your usecases?
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