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The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

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Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#221
post #5

I just learned this bit on the radio the other day and was quite surprised: out of 1.9 billion acres in the US, the #1 and #3 ranked uses are cattle and crops (respectively) [1]. Out of the crops, much of it is used for livestock. [1] https://www.npr.org/2019/07/26/745731823/the-u-s-has-nearly-...

And why is that land used for livestock? Much of this is land in the west, and there's not much else you can do with it. You can't grow crops on it - not enough water. You can't even grow trees on it - not much land got cleared of trees to make room for grazing. All you can do is run some cows or sheep on it. And, behold, it becomes part of this huge acreage used for cattle.

> You can't grow crops on it - not enough water.

This is false. You can grow crops almost anywhere in the U.S. using water intensive techniques.

You won’t be able to do it at scale while funneling all the profits through a single entity though. It can only be done with smaller farms and more attention from a larger number of specialized farmers. We know more about how to do this now than any time in history.

If you want to have a single entity collect all the profits you need a one-size-fits-all methodology, and cattle grazing is that.

So that’s the trade off. An existential one for big beef companies.

Cattle also destroy the plants that maintain soil health and allow you to store water in the landscape, so it’s a vicious cycle. Fairly easily undone building berms and planting pioneer species.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, it's _possible_. But we absolutely no evidence that it happens based on what we know (albeit very little) about the subject. And we have good reasons to believe it's not happening: plants lack the brain structures and processing power believed to be required, no evolutionary advantage, lack of motility. Philosophically, it fails as an Appeal to Ignorance. Practically, it fails for a few reasons. Many of the pla…

An appeal to ignorance requires to me make an assertion. Saying something is _possible_ is not an assertion. I concur however, that if one has a genuine concern for plant suffering then only ethical course of action is suicide.

Yes, _asserting_ something is possible is an assertion. And if your only intention was really to just point out the possibility of it and not suggest it as a likely alternative, you're not adding anything to the conversation. But it seemed to pretty clear be the latter.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody said it would go away 100%. But it may become a niche product, like foie gras.

Did you RTFA article? It is titled "The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry"!

lol sounds like you only read the headline. But even if the beef industry dies, that doesn’t mean beef itself is gone - there will certainly be non-industrial producers.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya sorry, it's a relatively new concept: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/319593.php My feeling is that it's similar to how allergies/cancer/etc often have 2 or more triggers that must coincide to set off the condition. So for example, maybe people who wouldn't typically have gluten sensitivity (a lectin), ended up with it because they distrupted their gut flora by eating, say, the glyphosate in oats (especi…

This is very interesting... I am a vegetarian who has been eating a ton of legumes the past few days and I've been having a bout of what I suspect is IBS. I should cut back on peanuts and see how it goes. Coincidentally, I also had sleep apnea at one point, though exercise exercise (very minor weight loss) made it go away.

Peanuts have mold which can lead to candida infections. My nutritionist says to avoid peanuts altogether

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#225
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with Impossible Foods, but I don't see anything about RNA here: > The vegan meat substitutes are made from mixtures of pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil, coconut oil, and other ingredients like potato starch, apple extract, sunflower lecithin, and pomegranate powder with a range of vitamins and minerals. Beef products that "bleed" are achieved by using beet juice Just sounds like…

I've had a beyond meat burger, I'm curious to hear the opinion of others that have had one too because I thought it tasted terrible . The texture was nothing like real ground beef and neither was the flavour. It wasn't good different either - I'd much rather have a regular bean burger. I feel like it's all marketing and they're just riding the hype wave caused by other better products or peoples desire for one. (I as…

Having eaten possibly all the best beef around the world, and most of the "meatless" meat even before they were even hyped. I have yet to taste a Meatless burger that is anywhere near as good as real beef.

I wouldn't say Beyond Meat were terrible, may be because I have low expectation of these type of patties anyway. But Impossible Burger is slightly better than Beyond Meat, but still far from Real Burger. I definitely wont be trying it again until they have another major version upgrade.

Yes, they talk about meat like Software Development.....

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#226
post #2

This whole submarine vegan agenda is annoying. Yes, people will choose to go with the artificial beef. No it's not going to replace beef. It's a subsitute. A few things: 1. Cows are not optimized to make meat: Animals aren't a food factory. Animals eat other animals. We are animals and happen to have a wide variety of what we can eat 2. There are distinct benefits from eating meat (vitamins), in which it's incredibly…

In the article the author talks about eating both a beef burger and cheese, so I don't think he has a "vegan agenda". > 2. There are distinct benefits from eating meat (vitamins), in which it's incredibly inefficient from getting them from plants Raising meat with today's common production methods (feed lots) is incredibly inefficient. In fact, a plant based diet can meet all nutritional requirements with just B12 vi…

>In fact, a plant based diet can meet all nutritional requirements with just B12 vitamins.

How expensive is that? How much variety do you have? How easy is it to not do correctly?

Any time I've looked into vegan diets it seems as though you don't have all that much choice if you want to get your vitamins and amino acids.

You can live on a poor diet for a long time, but it will do damage, so whether this type of vegan diet is easy to screw up is also very important.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#227

I'm starting to think more and more that people promoting plant based burgers have either never tasted beef or never tasted a plant based burger. If the main concern is environment I get it and go for it. But if you are claiming that plant based burgers are healthier or tastier you are borderline delusional. Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL, might as well just in…

> Last time I cooked a Beyond Meat burger I noticed it was 30% canola oil. 30% CANOLA OIL Burgers are typically made from 80/20 ground beef. That's 80% meat, 20% fat.

> That's 80% meat, 20% fat.

And that ratio is before cooking. A nontrivial amount of the fat cooks out on the grill.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#228
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> someone will need to reform the federal food subsidies that keep meat an order of magnitude cheaper than it should be Sadly, as most of us probably know already, that would require the buddies of Big Agriculture to do work that directly attacks Big Agriculture. Won't happen, not now, not ever. There's simply too much money in it. I think the only thing that might shuttle this process along is that Big Agri starts c…

Insular behavior like this will eventually leave the USA in the dust. China is redoing their entire energy infrastructure and while they probably wont move off meat any time soon at least they have that going for them. Most of Europe and the rest of the Anglo-sphere will happily move to plant-based proteins and completely leave that industry behind. When some of the leading industries in the US are just not exported…

> Most of Europe and the rest of the Anglo-sphere will happily move to plant-based proteins and completely leave that industry behind

I really doubt that.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#229

I'm excited for meat alternatives, but have 3 thoughts on them that I haven't seen mentioned yet (I'm 42): * Nearly all of the rangeland and high desert in the western US was destroyed by cattle and sheep grazing over the past 150 years. This is a billion dollar industry with the emotional buy-in of millions of people so I'm skeptical that it will be reformed in our lifetimes. * My digestive system got wrecked trying…

>My digestive system got wrecked trying to be on a mostly vegetarian diet over several years after the housing bubble popped. The gist of it is that the lectins (and other defense mechanisms in the husks) of legumes and nightshades disrupt the mucus lining of the intestines, which leads to leaky gut and stool getting into the body cavity and blood (leaky gut), which may lead to autoimmune diseases like colitis and ar…

> Umm

Signaling of disdain and contempt not required.

> Cooking destroys like 99% of lectins.

Citation required.

> Its always broken down completely first

It's

Ummm

We are talking here about the lining of the digestive system. You know, the system that takes in whole foods and breaks them down. You bet the digestive system's walls are exposed to the proteins.

Re: The Beginning of the End of the Beef Industry?

#230
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe with Impossible Foods, but I don't see anything about RNA here: > The vegan meat substitutes are made from mixtures of pea protein isolates, rice protein, mung bean protein, canola oil, coconut oil, and other ingredients like potato starch, apple extract, sunflower lecithin, and pomegranate powder with a range of vitamins and minerals. Beef products that "bleed" are achieved by using beet juice Just sounds like…

I've had a beyond meat burger, I'm curious to hear the opinion of others that have had one too because I thought it tasted terrible . The texture was nothing like real ground beef and neither was the flavour. It wasn't good different either - I'd much rather have a regular bean burger. I feel like it's all marketing and they're just riding the hype wave caused by other better products or peoples desire for one. (I as…

Yes. Also look at the ingredients - the composition is very far from real meat in terms of nutrient value.

But if you think beyond meat is bad, try some vegan cheeses some time. I tried 3 and they all tasted like 6 parts soap, 1 part nail polish, and "hints" of cheese.

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