Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived • Hacker News Board

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#61

Post by scottlocklin » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:13 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #55

zalthor wrote: post #22

Maybe I'm being too picky? Or a maybe I'm just in the minority, bit I don't really like using Sonic. I mean, their internet works, and customer support is fine (but I've had as good a service from Comcast too). What I find annoying from Sonic is their billing process. I dislike that they foist a random router onto you and charge you $10 a month (and charge you if you want to return it). I also dislike that they force…

Who in 2019 needs a landline? People with house alarms. People with fax machines. People with medical equipment that sends information to their doctors a couple of times a day. People who don't trust VOIP providers. People who want to be properly geolocated when they dial 911. People who want to use a phone when the power goes out for longer than a cell phone can hold a charge (think hurricane-prone states). Here's a…

Also people who give a shit about latency. G4 is absolute shit for latency, as are all other wireless solutions.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#62

Post by beatgammit » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

deftnerd wrote: post #17

justizin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you are complaining that sonic uses google captcha, and google captcha did not work for you today? lol.

It's a valid critism. They decided to use Google Captcha and it often blocks 'advanced' users. ReCAPTCHA often has problems with Linux, non-chrome, VPN users, and users that use ad or javascript blockers. That's the kind of advanced user that appreciates and uses an internet provider like Sonic.net. It would be like a mobile phone service provider requiring people to pass a turing test if they call into the sales lin…

Why isn't email verification enough for these services? I don't think they really need to worry about automated services signing up for accounts, so I wonder why they put anything there at all...

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#63

Post by scottlocklin » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:15 AM UTC

ribosometronome wrote: post #10

__sy__ wrote: post #4

Just wanted to chime in about how happy with their residential service in SF. I have their 1Gbps package. With Comcast, this would most often translate to a real-life asymetric 250mbps download, 50mbps upload speed. With Sonic: I'm consistently getting SYMMETRIC 900mbps+! It's insane and comes in real-handy when you're pushing a few gigs of file from your home server to AWS... Edit: I have cat6 ethernet wired through…

Former Sonic customer here. I caved and moved to the South Bay after doing the commute for too long and Sonic is honestly what I miss most about the city.

Same here. I can't imagine complaining about Sonic. If I had issues, I could call a freaking human in Mountain View (or whatever), and he'd fix it rather than asking me to cycle the power on my computer.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#64

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:22 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #55

zalthor wrote: post #22

Maybe I'm being too picky? Or a maybe I'm just in the minority, bit I don't really like using Sonic. I mean, their internet works, and customer support is fine (but I've had as good a service from Comcast too). What I find annoying from Sonic is their billing process. I dislike that they foist a random router onto you and charge you $10 a month (and charge you if you want to return it). I also dislike that they force…

Who in 2019 needs a landline? People with house alarms. People with fax machines. People with medical equipment that sends information to their doctors a couple of times a day. People who don't trust VOIP providers. People who want to be properly geolocated when they dial 911. People who want to use a phone when the power goes out for longer than a cell phone can hold a charge (think hurricane-prone states). Here's a…

No landline has sounded anywhere near as good as FaceTime Audio to me.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#65

Post by newman314 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:26 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #55

zalthor wrote: post #22

Maybe I'm being too picky? Or a maybe I'm just in the minority, bit I don't really like using Sonic. I mean, their internet works, and customer support is fine (but I've had as good a service from Comcast too). What I find annoying from Sonic is their billing process. I dislike that they foist a random router onto you and charge you $10 a month (and charge you if you want to return it). I also dislike that they force…

Who in 2019 needs a landline? People with house alarms. People with fax machines. People with medical equipment that sends information to their doctors a couple of times a day. People who don't trust VOIP providers. People who want to be properly geolocated when they dial 911. People who want to use a phone when the power goes out for longer than a cell phone can hold a charge (think hurricane-prone states). Here's a…

But one should be able to opt out. The problem is that Sonic insists on bundling it in.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#66

Post by newman314 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:28 AM UTC

chaostheory wrote: post #49

inferiorhuman wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t feel you realize how good you have it. What you're missing is that the price is the same for fiber and DSL. If you're in a part of the Bay Area where all you can get is 3 Mbps DSL from Sonic, they'll gladly charge you that same price (and yes I did this for a while until I realized that Sonic wasn't particularly loyal to their customers). Oh, and $40 is the promo rate these days.

Yeah I know about their AT&T piggyback DSL service. Yeah, it isn’t a good deal, but $40 for fiber internet is unbelievable. What’s sad is that I don’t live that far away from you. Thanks for your post though. It reminded me to talk to Comcast again. Now I’m paying $140 for 1 gbps

Sonic gig fiber is only $40 if you use thier fiber. Where they resell ATT fiber, it's $80/mth for the first year then jumps to $90.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#67

Post by an_opabinia » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

zalthor wrote: post #22

Maybe I'm being too picky? Or a maybe I'm just in the minority, bit I don't really like using Sonic. I mean, their internet works, and customer support is fine (but I've had as good a service from Comcast too). What I find annoying from Sonic is their billing process. I dislike that they foist a random router onto you and charge you $10 a month (and charge you if you want to return it). I also dislike that they force…

As a Sonic subscriber, I can vouch that this is an accurate report, and that their business model is fundamentally to advertise a low price and charge a high one hoping you’ll like gigabit Ethernet enough to keep it.

Another way of looking at this is search engine- and eCommerce-driven price discovery hasn’t given us better prices or more accurate ones, it has just moved money from one set of bad actors (people who rip you off) to another (people who lie about the real price).

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#68

Post by hinkley » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:53 AM UTC

nym wrote: post #12

gervase wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FIOS wasn't actually why that market segment died; it was due to the FCC decision to re-classify DSL [0]. This was in response to a lawsuit resolved a few months earlier that did the same for cable internet connections. [1] By re-classifying both cable and DSL as Title 1, rather than Title 2, that meant that they were no longer common carriers, and could kick all the competing ISPs off their network. This is why it s…

> The phone companies say that the ruling will free up more of their resources to improve their broadband services, although at least one FCC commissioner says he will be watching to see if that's really the case. > ISPs such as EarthLink, which already have a hard time competing on price, may still negotiate access contracts with the phone companies but are looking for alternative ways to deliver their services. Ear…

And Speakeasy to Covad.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#69

Post by Rothnargoth » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:03 AM UTC

Sonic customer here, but will try to be neutral. The value proposition was probably the best selling point, and they rarely raise prices. There is a certain satisfaction when the odd piece of Comcast advertisement comes by mail offering 2-3x the price for 1/8 the bandwidth from Sonic. Fiber customers can return the residential gateway and use their own router, which saves you $10/month. You have to agree you understand the implications of loosing remote troubleshooting, but I'm sure HN users are savvy in this department.

Prior to getting symmetrical fiber, I didn't have a clue what all that bandwidth could be used for, but again the value proposition was icing on the cake. Years later I still haven't a clue what all of this bandwidth was for. Imagine a kid on a fieldtrip to a famous chocolate factory imagining swimming in a chocolate fountain. The fountain is real, but you dip maybe one strawberry when you get there.

The only customer support call was easily enough to self fix. I just wanted to know if I had permission to touch the equipment in the outside service panel.

Hopefully, more cities push for municipal broadband. That would be if Comcast would stop suing to stop it.

Re: Most internet service providers are gone – Sonic has survived and thrived

#70

Post by wahern » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 2:06 AM UTC

an_opabinia wrote: post #67

zalthor wrote: post #22

Maybe I'm being too picky? Or a maybe I'm just in the minority, bit I don't really like using Sonic. I mean, their internet works, and customer support is fine (but I've had as good a service from Comcast too). What I find annoying from Sonic is their billing process. I dislike that they foist a random router onto you and charge you $10 a month (and charge you if you want to return it). I also dislike that they force…

As a Sonic subscriber, I can vouch that this is an accurate report, and that their business model is fundamentally to advertise a low price and charge a high one hoping you’ll like gigabit Ethernet enough to keep it. Another way of looking at this is search engine- and eCommerce-driven price discovery hasn’t given us better prices or more accurate ones, it has just moved money from one set of bad actors (people who r…

That's just not true. They simply don't include taxes in the advertised price, same as everybody else, and because they include voice service in all their plans the taxes add up. You also don't need to use their routers (I don't), but they charge you an extra $10--presumably because of the increased support calls.

Here's my latest invoice. I've had Sonic Fiber for a few years so these are the non-promo numbers:

  Voice Federal Subscriber Line Charge Fee - 6.50
  Voice Federal Universal Service Fund Fee - 2.43
  Voice California Lifeline Telephone Service Surcharge - 0.36
  Voice California Deaf and Disabled Telecom Program Surcharge - 0.04
  Voice California High Cost Fund-A Surcharge - 0.03
  Voice California Teleconnect Fund Surcharge - 0.06
  Voice California Advanced Services Fund Surcharge - 0.04
  Voice California 911 Emergency Surcharge - 0.06
  Voice San Francisco Access Line Fee - 3.49
  Voice California Public Utility Commission User Fee - 0.03
  Voice FCC Interstate Telecom Service Provider Fee - 0.03
  Property Tax Allotment Surcharge - 0.36
  Voice Regulatory Recovery Surcharge - 0.77
  Fusion Fiber Phone Service -  0.00
  Fusion Fiber - 1 Gbps - 50.00
  Fusion Fiber Information - Data $40.00 Voice $10.00 - 0.00
  Charge Collapsed prorate for 2019-07-01 to 2019-08-10 for 
  Voice Federal Universal Service Fund Fee - 0.73
  Total $64.93

As you can see above, the taxes can vary between localities, so it would be difficult to advertise a specific price if they included them. But, again, nobody else does this. Why single out Sonic in this regard? Equivocating Sonic's product and quality of service with AT&T and Comcast just because of this issue is... not helpful.

AT&T fiber service starts out higher than this for less bandwidth, before taxes.