Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims • Hacker News Board

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#181

Post by g051051 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:04 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #62

greedo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, most of us did opt in. If you look at the credit agreements we sign when we buy cars, open credit accounts, enter into a mortgage, we give the lender the privilege to share our data with these credit reporting companies.

I'm aware this is legally the case, but I think this is yet another sign that default opt-in isn't a legitimate agreement, society has become pretty litigious and I think some of the understanding around default opt-ins during enrollment for other services and third party data sales need to be revisited. I find them to be highly unethical and to generally result in a contract negotiated without compensation and any c…

This is not "default opt-in", like having the "Subscribe to our email newsletter" checked on an online order form. The sharing of credit worthiness information is the cornerstone of your ability to get credit. It's not a hidden extra, it's not something you can choose not to get, there's no "opt out". It's a condition of doing business with the credit grantor. It's like opting out of having a driver's license. If you want to drive, you have to have one.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#182

Post by XaoDaoCaoCao » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:05 AM UTC

throwawaycert wrote: post #88

kome wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The credit score is doing exactly what it's supposed to. policing people and make the poor to pay more.

If you don't pay your bills, I think it's entirely reasonable for businesses to tell each other about that so you don't defraud them out of a lot of money.

>the entire banking system promotes systematic moral hazards and has lowered the purchasing power of stagnating wages for most people

"Why are people defaulting on their bills!?"

The whole notion of transfer of majority responsibility to an individual is one of the slimiest things in this society. We get monitored by an array of hidden surveillance measures and algorithimic judgement we have no way to properly counter or defend ourselves against. Meanwhile central credit gets to borrow money and get bailed out.

Give me a fudging break.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#183

Post by zucker42 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

harryh wrote: post #55

gzer0 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is interesting but does not constitute nor provide any substantive information that is backed by evidence. Backup your 'anecdotal' claims.

Banks and credit card issuers all pay hefty sums of money to the reporting agencies to use in underwriting their loans. They wouldn't do this if they weren't helpful in modeling risk.

This is a fallacious argument. Just because banks use credit scores doesn't mean they are accurate (see argumentum ad populum).

What we'd need to demonstrate your claim is for example some data linking credit scores at time of loan to default rate, adjusted for income and loan terms.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#184

Post by mattmanser » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

g051051 wrote: post #181

munk-a wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm aware this is legally the case, but I think this is yet another sign that default opt-in isn't a legitimate agreement, society has become pretty litigious and I think some of the understanding around default opt-ins during enrollment for other services and third party data sales need to be revisited. I find them to be highly unethical and to generally result in a contract negotiated without compensation and any c…

This is not "default opt-in", like having the "Subscribe to our email newsletter" checked on an online order form. The sharing of credit worthiness information is the cornerstone of your ability to get credit. It's not a hidden extra, it's not something you can choose not to get, there's no "opt out". It's a condition of doing business with the credit grantor. It's like opting out of having a driver's license. If you…

It's a recent thing, in the last 30/40 years and I also thought that I read it's efficacy was quite questionable, but could be wrong.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#185

Post by throwawaycert » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

XaoDaoCaoCao wrote: post #182

throwawaycert wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't pay your bills, I think it's entirely reasonable for businesses to tell each other about that so you don't defraud them out of a lot of money.

>the entire banking system promotes systematic moral hazards and has lowered the purchasing power of stagnating wages for most people "Why are people defaulting on their bills!?" The whole notion of transfer of majority responsibility to an individual is one of the slimiest things in this society. We get monitored by an array of hidden surveillance measures and algorithimic judgement we have no way to properly counte…

This isn't complicated. You incur a debt, you pay it. If you can't, people aren't going to want to do business with you, and will quite reasonably refuse.

You are trying to make everyone else responsible for my finances and I'd damn well thank you to stop, since they're mine.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#186

Post by g051051 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:08 AM UTC

chiefalchemist wrote: post #129

lakjdsflajk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I guess you could take it further and say we all opted-in to be screwed over in various ways throughout life when we were born too. Doesn't mean we shouldn't fight back against it.

The credit score is a form of behavior modification tool. Some unseen force defined it, and then imposed it upon us. Comply, ideally excel, or be a social outcast (read: screwed). We had no say. We certinly had no vote. Yet it's a simply ubiquitous tool that cleanly defines the behaviour of some man. A relentless normalized nudge. The Man and his System FTW.

> We had no say. We certinly had no vote.

Why should you? It's the credit grantors who use it. They say "when I grant credit to someone with a score of 800, I'm much less likely to lose money. If they have a score of 600, I'm far more likely to lose money." It's their money, your only say is whether you accept their terms or not.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#187

Post by mikeash » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

throwawaycert wrote: post #177

mikeash wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how did all these sophisticated financial organizations get taken by subprime mortgage bundles in 2008?

They didn't. Pension plans and individual investors are not sophisticated financial organizations. They rely on those that are to do their job in a non-fraudulent manner. They didn't.

Bear Stearns? Lehman Brothers? AIG? The hundreds of banks that went under?

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#188

Post by XaoDaoCaoCao » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:10 AM UTC

throwawaycert wrote: post #185

XaoDaoCaoCao wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>the entire banking system promotes systematic moral hazards and has lowered the purchasing power of stagnating wages for most people "Why are people defaulting on their bills!?" The whole notion of transfer of majority responsibility to an individual is one of the slimiest things in this society. We get monitored by an array of hidden surveillance measures and algorithimic judgement we have no way to properly counte…

This isn't complicated. You incur a debt, you pay it. If you can't, people aren't going to want to do business with you, and will quite reasonably refuse. You are trying to make everyone else responsible for my finances and I'd damn well thank you to stop, since they're mine .

I understand that clearly. But clearly there are classes of institutions and people who...

1. Make a mockery of prudent allocation of money and get bailed out when their games get messed up

2. Mess up the purchasing power of any money you possess far more than any individual defaults or even class of individual defaults

3. Impose grave and hidden responsibilities on individual borrowers and mass surveillance...

They are messing up your finances far more than the most reckless individual borrowers ever could. *

PS - How is finance going to deal with the multitrillion dollar pension bomb? With prudence or with a combination of a game of musical chairs and chickens until stuff gets serious? How is your financial discipline, as an individual, going to protect you from manmade tsnumais?

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#189

Post by panny » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

atomicone wrote: post #11

well.. when individuals lose a court battle, they owe the winning party money from their future earnings, in case their current balance does not cover the sum owed. Why don't they make companies do that. It would only seem fair for the amount of damage they did :|

Equifax was hacked by Chinese state sponsored hackers.

https://republicans-oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2...

Why don't we send the bill to China and make them pay it?

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#190

Post by g051051 » Thu, Aug 01, 2019, 1:11 AM UTC

noodlesUK wrote: post #6

Surely the FTC and Equifax saw this coming? 150m people were included in the breach. Only 31m USD was allocated to give anyone who claimed 125 USD? How on earth did they do this math?

Because the purpose of the 31m USD was to compensate people who had bought credit monitoring, spent time dealing with credit reports, freezes, locks, etc. Out of the 147m people who were potentially affected, what percentage actually incurred any real costs vs. the number that rushed to file a claim after the headlines blared "$125 to everyone!"