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Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

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Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#171

Post by djsumdog »

harryh wrote: post #132
mceachen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a Standard Car Dealership or Mortgage Lender going to support you redlining an agreement, crossing out the sections you don't like (which include oversharing every and all morsel of data they can fetch from you)? No. The salesperson/CSR is going to be confused, and not even know how to proceed. In none of these cases did I opt in. And I decidedly couldn't opt-out.

Yes, if you want to borrow money, the person loaning you money is generally going to insist that you opt into the system that helps them understand if you are a good credit risk or not. That's not an unfair request on their part. Don't want to participate? Then don't ask for a loan.

There aren't any other options though. No one is going to set you red-line their contracts. No one.

I have personally walked away from work agreements for jobs when they wouldn't remove non-compete clauses, but not everyone has that option.

There is no "meeting of the minds" here in any real sense.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#172

Post by throwawaycert »

mikeash wrote: post #169
throwawaycert wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't seem relevant to the question of whether credit scores are statistically useful.

We've established that sufficiently advanced fraud can overcome the ability of organizations to vet the info that’s given to them. If the credit bureaus are actually organizations dedicated to fraud, then the fact that many other organization fall for it doesn’t tell us too much about their accuracy.

If Osama bin Laden's ghost appears to you and says "There will not be a terrorist attack in New York tomorrow.", and then there is, and this repeats a few times, the fact that his statement is, facially, a lie, and the fact that he can't even exist doesn't matter. You have an input that correlates with a certain output. The intent of the person who provided you the input, or even how nonsensical you think the input is, doesn't change its statistical usefulness.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#174

Post by mikeash »

adrr wrote: post #162
mikeash wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better for whom? I’m sure the existing credit bureaus are great for the people who give them money. They sure suck for the rest of us, though. Fortunately for them, we get zero say.

Market is efficient. If underwriting wasn’t efficient, a company could utilize better algorithms and offer better rates and better determine risk to minimize default. This a multi billion dollar opportunity. People don’t care about who is underwriting their car or home loan, they care about rates.

Equifax and their brother businesses give us low rates in exchange for exposing us to fraud risks whose monetary value is probably literally incalculable.

The thing is, we don’t get to choose whether we’re exposed to those risks. It happens whether we like it or not.

So let’s say I start a company that offers better TCO: my rates are a bit higher but this is more than made up for by a much lower fraud risk. Do I win the market? No, because Equifax’s fraud risk hits my customers just as much, so I’m not competitive.

Credit bureaus give us low rates because they externalize the costs. Since the costs are externalities, competition can’t beat them. It’s the financial equivalent of making cheap electricity by poisoning the community with emissions.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#175

Post by mikeash »

throwawaycert wrote: post #150
mikeash wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foisting responsibility onto customers with more important things to worry about, rather than into organizations whose only purpose is to keep track of these things?

It is not my job to go out and manage my customer's finances and take their credit cards or write myself checks from their accounts, and I'd be quite rightly arrested for theft if I tried.

It is, or should be, your responsibility to notify them when payment it due.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#176

Post by mikeash »

throwawaycert wrote: post #172
mikeash wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've established that sufficiently advanced fraud can overcome the ability of organizations to vet the info that’s given to them. If the credit bureaus are actually organizations dedicated to fraud, then the fact that many other organization fall for it doesn’t tell us too much about their accuracy.

If Osama bin Laden's ghost appears to you and says "There will not be a terrorist attack in New York tomorrow.", and then there is, and this repeats a few times, the fact that his statement is, facially, a lie, and the fact that he can't even exist doesn't matter. You have an input that correlates with a certain output. The intent of the person who provided you the input, or even how nonsensical you think the input i…

So how did all these sophisticated financial organizations get taken by subprime mortgage bundles in 2008?

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#177

Post by throwawaycert »

mikeash wrote: post #176
throwawaycert wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Osama bin Laden's ghost appears to you and says "There will not be a terrorist attack in New York tomorrow.", and then there is, and this repeats a few times, the fact that his statement is, facially, a lie, and the fact that he can't even exist doesn't matter. You have an input that correlates with a certain output. The intent of the person who provided you the input, or even how nonsensical you think the input i…

So how did all these sophisticated financial organizations get taken by subprime mortgage bundles in 2008?

They didn't. Pension plans and individual investors are not sophisticated financial organizations. They rely on those that are to do their job in a non-fraudulent manner. They didn't.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#178

Post by lostlogin »

freetobesmart wrote: post #100
deckard1 wrote: post #49

We're all supposed to take it as just a fact of life now that we need a monitoring service for a service none of us opted in to. And who runs these monitoring services? Why of course, it's the credit reporting companies! Who else would it be. So not only do they know when fraud is happening to you, but they will happily ruin your life while knowing and charge you for the privilege of knowing this is happening to you.…

there is no such thing a good credit unless someone can verify it. I can give all of my current credit cards in a background check, but what about the past ones I defaulted on??? Are you saying credit scores should not exist? Is it because you are a fraud that defaults alot and likes to steal money?

Credit scores are bs. My credit isn’t good. I’ve paid a lifetime total of approximately 10c (attempting to convert to $US) interest on credit cards and have never missed a bill - I pay them off before they arrive. 90%+ of my payments are credit card. My score reflects something other than my likelihood of paying back debt.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#179

Post by throwawaycert »

mikeash wrote: post #175
throwawaycert wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not my job to go out and manage my customer's finances and take their credit cards or write myself checks from their accounts, and I'd be quite rightly arrested for theft if I tried.

It is, or should be, your responsibility to notify them when payment it due.

Ah, but there is no indication they didn't. What happened is that the check was sent, but did not arrive. In other words, the customer and his agent (the postal service, probably) in the exchange did not fulfill their job of getting the money to the business. That is not something the business can control, and if you try to make it their responsibility, they will simply start refusing payment by mail, since it would be a constant and high level source of fraud.

Re: Equifax removed the $125 claim payout option after millions submitted claims

#180

Post by acdha »

deckard1 wrote: post #49

We're all supposed to take it as just a fact of life now that we need a monitoring service for a service none of us opted in to. And who runs these monitoring services? Why of course, it's the credit reporting companies! Who else would it be. So not only do they know when fraud is happening to you, but they will happily ruin your life while knowing and charge you for the privilege of knowing this is happening to you.…

The problem isn’t credit but the companies issuing loans without doing their due diligence. If they were routinely required to meet the normal levels of legal proof that you signed a contract or were liable for false claims, the entire system would change overnight. The awareness campaigns about identity theft, monitoring, etc. are all a distraction from the companies originating loans trying to shift the cost of their lax practices to everyone else.
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