Advertising Is a Cancer on Society • Hacker News Board

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#411

Post by rabidrat » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

buboard wrote: post #400

rabidrat wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I call up a restaurant and ask "do you have fish today" and they say "no, today we have steak" I do not consider that advertising.

That's because it's like targeted advertising: Now that they know you 're looking for food, they can make the advertisement relevant. It would sound worse if they said "No but would you like a pair of sandals"

Advertising is understood to be push and broadcast (or at least multicast) communication. If I initiate the communication, that is not advertising. If it is targeted to an audience of one, that is not advertising. The OP was lamenting the ubiquity and tactics of abusing broadcast media to manipulate consumers en masse. I'm taking a wild guess here that the OP would not put consumer-initiated communication into the bin of "advertising" they were talking about.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#412

Post by cameronbrown » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:17 PM UTC

_petronius wrote: post #26

starpilot wrote: post #2

We get rid of it, Google/Facebook/etc. shut down. While social media is of arguable benefits, Google has provided incalculable value to the world. Ads are the magic money fountain that give them the power to organize all of human knowledge, a phenomenal resource anyone can tap.

> Google has provided incalculable value to the world I'm not convinced by this statement, and I'd be genuinely interested to hear your reasoning behind it. Is it specific products? Specific technologies? Although Google has built some interesting stuff, I can't think of anything off the top of my head that they've done that was either a) something that couldn't have been invented without them, or b) only unique due…

With your logic none of the great inventors mattered, because their stuff could've been discovered/created by others.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#413

Post by UnFleshedOne » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:18 PM UTC

pas wrote: post #396

justforyou wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're basing this on anecdotal evidence, I've worked with entire departments who ate cake or ice-cream every day. That doesn't mean cake and cookies should be banned, nor should soda. It's nanny state nonsense, and one of the more steeply graded slippery slopes... If you're really concerned for people's wellbeing, ensuring access to healthcare goes a lot further than denying people snacks..

People with riskier lives should simply pay more into healthcare insurance.

One general way to achieve that is sin taxes (on sugar in this case).

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#414

Post by anbop » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

zeptomu wrote: post #360

anbop wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a SaaS business which exists ONLY because of advertising. It’s highly niche, really the only product that does what it does, and a few dozen people a day click through from Google Ads and find that I have a product to automate something they had been spending hundreds of hours on. You should see the effusive thank you notes I get if you think advertising is pointless. This product wouldn’t exist without Google…

Do you mind sharing your SAAS?

No because it’s too easy to clone.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#415

Post by buboard » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

There is one part of the anti-advertising rhetoric which has to do with the fact that we spend so much time online and advertising is very visible there - after all Google, an advertising company, is the largest and most important internet company. That's unfortunate of course. There is another part though that is not just fed up with advertising, but comes from a certain trends towards protecting "my safe space". It's more prominent in the latest generations and it's a knee-jerk reaction to anything that might spread speech that is not explicitly desired (not just acceptable). It's the same aversion that sometimes makes people intolerant to their neighbors who don't share their own views. I think the article similarly slid quickly from advertising to all forms of manipulation, forgetting that paid advertising (pamphlets) is what enabled a number of positive revolutions in societies, from martin luther to french revolution to the bolsheviks.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#416

Post by kspacewalk2 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #408

cameronbrown wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so reductionist. Someone could find this escape room via a search ad, have a blast and tell all of her friends and none of them may never choose to do the same. And an escape room experience isn't something you can easily bring people back for - you need to find new customers every single time. I suppose a good way that could make word of mouth work is to create two experiences and recommend the other in an…

Maybe there could be a middle ground: keep most of the internet ad-free, but allow users to do explicit "commercial searches" for e.g. vacuum cleaners, or hotels, or fun things to do in their area. Then the escape room would show up there.

You would need to pay for such an ad-free internet in some way, other than being an ad target. This is a critical point of you expect the variety and quality of this ad-free internet to approach what we have now.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#417

Post by brokenkebab » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

magduf wrote: post #317

brokenkebab wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May we be allowed cake and ice cream or would you ban those as well? Maybe you can get a special license if it's a birthday? Absolutely reasonable question. How about coffee? Soda-prohibiters usually ignore it, because, I guess, they like it themselves, or expect a huge backlash. However, it's a very common way of excessive sugar consumption world-wide.

You don't have to drink coffee with sugar, and in fact, many people do drink it "black".

You missed the message in my comment. Soda don't have to be too sweet either.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#418

Post by Zeklandia » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:20 PM UTC

dwild wrote: post #265

wpietri wrote: post #23

He doesn't quite say it by name, but most advertising is a classic arms race. Especially given how the internet now makes information easily available, a great deal of advertising is about manipulating consumers to pick company A's products over those from competitors B, C, and D. This forces those other companies to spend to get and keep customers. It's pure waste. For example, everybody on the planet is now familia…

I would have agreed in the past but now that my SO has started an escape room, if your ideal world existed, she would be bankrupt right now. Most ads isn't about manipulation, it's just about getting your attention and reminding you that this product exists. Ads are the only way to reach her market. You could argue that search is a good one too (which is true), but sadly people have trouble paying to watch videos onl…

If you have to tell people they need something then they don't need it. Escape rooms are an entertainment luxury. When there is essential work that needs to be done (infrastructure, healthcare, education, &c.), it makes sense that it takes psychological manipulation to convince people that what they really need to do with their time and effort is temporary entertainment. If you want more customers, provide something that people find more necessary, like childcare.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#419

Post by cameronbrown » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

jkeuhlen wrote: post #97

bluetwo wrote: post #16

I would say the theft of attention and concentration is a cancer on society, but I agree overall. To those who say there is no other model, you are not correct.

What are the other models that exist and are currently working? As someone who is looking to build a free consumer product, I don't know what else exists that can offset my costs other than advertising. I hate paywalls just as much as advertising, so I'm opposed to just charging for access.

I'd say provide both models but be light on ads. If people are going to use adblock, you can't stop them and they'd never click on ads anyway. If people aren't using adblock then treat them with respect like most of the modern web isn't. Put focus on making your premium experience better because these are obviously your most loyal customers.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#420

Post by killjoywashere » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 10:21 PM UTC

picometer wrote: post #250

blodovnik wrote: post #8

This is a dogmatic viewpoint I think often seen in very technical people who are unwilling to see the interconnectedness of how our society works. I bet there's any number of things this person values that simply wouldn't exist without advertising. It's a childish and immature opinion really. Anyone who hates advertising this much should show their commitment by working at an organization that does not advertise. Loa…

On the contrary, I think the author addresses this via the "cancer" metaphor: > It's a malignant mutation of an idea that efficient markets need a way to connect goods and services with people wanting to buy them. > Over time, it became increasingly manipulative and dishonest. It also became more effective. In the process, it grew to consume a significant amount of resources of every company on the planet. I interpre…

What makes the current system suboptimal? I mean, the markets are Dutch auctions, which penalize overvaluation. Compared to my youth, I'm definitely exposed to far less advertizing.