Advertising Is a Cancer on Society • Hacker News Board

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#251

Post by davidivadavid » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:26 PM UTC

picometer wrote: post #250

blodovnik wrote: post #8

This is a dogmatic viewpoint I think often seen in very technical people who are unwilling to see the interconnectedness of how our society works. I bet there's any number of things this person values that simply wouldn't exist without advertising. It's a childish and immature opinion really. Anyone who hates advertising this much should show their commitment by working at an organization that does not advertise. Loa…

On the contrary, I think the author addresses this via the "cancer" metaphor: > It's a malignant mutation of an idea that efficient markets need a way to connect goods and services with people wanting to buy them. > Over time, it became increasingly manipulative and dishonest. It also became more effective. In the process, it grew to consume a significant amount of resources of every company on the planet. I interpre…

That analogy applies to literally anything that can grow. Great. Startups are a cancer. Technology is a cancer.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#252

Post by cm2012 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:26 PM UTC

philwelch wrote: post #173

cm2012 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My job is talking to start-ups and established companies that want to grow. It's not a fiction to say that most companies don't grow if they don't promote themselves.

Because they’re operating in an adversarial environment where every other business engages in advertising. It’s game theory.

They're operating in an adversarial environment where other businesses exist.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#253

Post by scarface74 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

cousin_it wrote: post #95

starpilot wrote: post #2

We get rid of it, Google/Facebook/etc. shut down. While social media is of arguable benefits, Google has provided incalculable value to the world. Ads are the magic money fountain that give them the power to organize all of human knowledge, a phenomenal resource anyone can tap.

If projects as large as Linux or Wikipedia can thrive without ads, I'm sure a Google-quality search engine can do the same. So far it hasn't been done because the ad-supported model is promising more money to anyone who tries; but if the ad-supported model goes away, you'll see a good non-ad-supported search engine soon enough. It could be P2P and free (like Mastodon, which proved that social networks don't have to r…

How many Linux contributors are paid by companies who make money by advertising?

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#254

Post by Gibbon1 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #23

He doesn't quite say it by name, but most advertising is a classic arms race. Especially given how the internet now makes information easily available, a great deal of advertising is about manipulating consumers to pick company A's products over those from competitors B, C, and D. This forces those other companies to spend to get and keep customers. It's pure waste. For example, everybody on the planet is now familia…

> but most advertising is a classic arms race.

Small brained primate thought du jour; advertising shouldn't be an allowed business expense.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#255

Post by aantix » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

ndiscussion wrote: post #160

solipsism wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May we be allowed cake and ice cream or would you ban those as well? Maybe you can get a special license if it's a birthday?

You can have it - just don't expect me to pay for your coronary. A long and painful death that costs millions. Was it worth it?

Thank god, an argument against universal healthcare.

I’ll eat the snacks I want.

I’ll pay for the healthcare I want and need.

You do what you need. And neither one of us is responsible for the other.

Now leave me be.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#256

Post by khawkins » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:27 PM UTC

blodovnik wrote: post #8

This is a dogmatic viewpoint I think often seen in very technical people who are unwilling to see the interconnectedness of how our society works. I bet there's any number of things this person values that simply wouldn't exist without advertising. It's a childish and immature opinion really. Anyone who hates advertising this much should show their commitment by working at an organization that does not advertise. Loa…

"Dogmatic viewpoints" are the real cancer on society. Actually "lupus" might be a more apt comparison.

Take a very broad issue like "advertising", which nearly everyone has had a negative experience with but performs a vital function. Highlight some damaging anecdotes and envision a world free from the issue. Thus, we have laid the groundwork that the issue is actually a problem. The stated or unstated solution is obviously to get rid of the problem, but the specifics of how to accomplish this are hazy at best. The conclusion boils down to anything which helps get rid of the issue must be good, and anything which supports the issue is bad. The resulting actions of true believers attack everything blindly because the moral logic has been simplified.

Lupus causes the immune system to start attacking your own tissue in the same way. Instead of identifying specific problems and working to eliminate them, it starts attacking everything, making the body weaker as it destroys an otherwise healthy organ.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#257

Post by roywiggins » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:28 PM UTC

dooglius wrote: post #185

joshgel wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a doctor, I'm all for banning soft drinks, recognizing that it probably will never happen. But, the health externalities associated with drinking such beverages should get priced in and be used to offset eventual health complications. This is not easy because no one likes taxes, but you get what you pay for.

How is there an externality? It's not like smoking where it affects other people.

The environmental externalities of bottling and shipping flavored water are considerable, though Coke is not the only offender.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#258

Post by socialist_coder » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

cm2012 wrote: post #87

wpietri wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1% of products have [...] 99% of products and services [...] plumber productivity would go up 50% [...] Did know that 97% of statistics are made up on the spot? The problem with your fictions here is that they're based in a world with a lot of advertising. In your fantasy, people just sit around dying of thirst because there's nobody to advertise water at them. But in reality, people would still find ways to get wh…

My job is talking to start-ups and established companies that want to grow. It's not a fiction to say that most companies don't grow if they don't promote themselves.

You are still living in a world with advertising. If there was no advertising, you wouldn't need advertising to grow.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#259

Post by perfunctory » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

blodovnik wrote: post #8

This is a dogmatic viewpoint I think often seen in very technical people who are unwilling to see the interconnectedness of how our society works. I bet there's any number of things this person values that simply wouldn't exist without advertising. It's a childish and immature opinion really. Anyone who hates advertising this much should show their commitment by working at an organization that does not advertise. Loa…

> Anyone who hates advertising this much should show their commitment by working at an organization that does not advertise. Loathing advertising and at the same time depending on it for income is deeply hypocritical.

It's the same as saying that living in China and criticising communism is deeply hypocritical.

I believe it's actually the opposite. It takes courage to criticise something your livelihood depends on.

Re: Advertising Is a Cancer on Society

#260

Post by davidivadavid » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 8:30 PM UTC

blodovnik wrote: post #8

This is a dogmatic viewpoint I think often seen in very technical people who are unwilling to see the interconnectedness of how our society works. I bet there's any number of things this person values that simply wouldn't exist without advertising. It's a childish and immature opinion really. Anyone who hates advertising this much should show their commitment by working at an organization that does not advertise. Loa…

It's the average opinion of people who are uninformed, and who've never had to sell anything for a living. They live in a fantasy world where ad people are wizards who can control people's brains and make them buy things they don't need by making them sad.

Absolute nonsense that wouldn't survive a 5 minute test in reality. Unfortunately it's more convenient to let other people at your company do that "dirty job", while mocking the "stupid sales jocks" and their "suits", while assuming you have a great understanding of what they're doing.

It's really the mirror image of nerd bullying, and it's not any better.