Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best? • Hacker News Board

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#91

Post by _eht » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 5:47 PM UTC

guelo wrote: post #24

pmontra wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is one thing that I don't understand. I plant 1000 trees, I sequester the CO2 I create by driving, heating my home and all the activities done by third parties to keep me alive (food, hospitals, etc). But that CO2 is still under the sky and most of it will be released when the trees die. It's not like we're pumping it back into oil fields or coal mines and never see it again. So this 1T trees initiative is a st…

If the tree is harvested for lumber or buried then the CO2 is not released back into the atmosphere

This comment does not scale linearly.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#92

Post by rabidrat » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

aresant wrote: post #71

tunesmith wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've gotta get past the argument pattern of "don't reduce consumption; sequester!" and "don't sequester; reduce consumption!" A lot of both are needed. I agree with the point that planting 100 trees should not leave anyone feeling they've done their part. Repeating the math until we're blue in the face is what helps there I guess.

Fair point. But convincing the entire population of the world to set their thermostat 1 degree higher during the summer months would have a 1000x multiple impact on a 40x shorter time scale than if every one of those people planted a tree. The spirit of my comment is that in general people LOVE the path of least resistance. Ask the average person about combatting climate change and their response is "plant more trees…

You can easily plant 1000 trees to cover some of the people who won't bother, but setting your thermostat 1000 degrees higher in the summer won't do anything more.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#93

Post by algaeontoast » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

I've started doing this as a hobby wherever I live after spending some time in the Bay Area and becoming obsessed with how cool huge redwoods are.

Growing saplings is slow and sometimes difficult, but one of the coolest things I've ever done was taking saplings I grew and then heading out into a reserve with scientists to plant them.

I feel like a huge understated challenge to these efforts is finding land that's protected / optimal for planting that will knowingly not be plowed or cleared within 60 years. Otherwise, it doesn't really matter how many trees you plant if they're all uprooted or killed before they even reach 6' in height...

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#94

Post by dleslie » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:05 PM UTC

dleslie wrote: post #41

jerkstate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the 600-1000 number is for "tree age 0" which is a sapling about 6 feet (two meters) tall - the germination/survival rate for planting smaller saplings or seeds is much lower.

Yep, when my wife tree planted she'd carry bags of those on her hips. One member of her team planted a tree every seven seconds, while they were working in BC.

Whoops, my tired morning self read "6 inches" and not "6 feet".

That's a hell of an error. Sorry folks.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#95

Post by gnode » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:10 PM UTC

tunesmith wrote: post #57

I don't see how 1.5 billion trees is enough to offset the UK's carbon emission rate. If you go by a tree sequestering a ton of carbon over a 40 year lifetime, and the UK emitting 368 megatons per year... you're sequestering on average 37.5 million tons per year (less when they're young, more when they're old), which is only one tenth of what the UK emits in one year. Plant 15 billion trees and then you're carbon neut…

The slow initial growth of trees makes me wonder whether we'd be better planting fast growing crops like bamboo and hemp which can be processed into long term materials like fibreboard and bioplastic or added to concrete.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#96

Post by Merrill » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:14 PM UTC

Where? Not where it will grow up into utility lines, or where it will fall into utilities or onto a structure.

What type? Small and strong species that will not uproot, snap off or shed branches in a windstorm, and will tolerate heavy loads of ice and/or snow, depending on your climate.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#97

Post by planck01 » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:15 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #17

jerkstate wrote: post #7

I did a rough spreadsheet some time back based on this 1998 EPA carbon sequestration worksheet [1] and found that an average person from a high carbon output country needs about 600-1000 trees to offset their carbon output. There are about 3 trillion trees for a population of 7 billion people for an average of 428 trees per person, so that means you have to make up the delta of about 172 to 572 trees over the course…

There is one thing that I don't understand. I plant 1000 trees, I sequester the CO2 I create by driving, heating my home and all the activities done by third parties to keep me alive (food, hospitals, etc). But that CO2 is still under the sky and most of it will be released when the trees die. It's not like we're pumping it back into oil fields or coal mines and never see it again. So this 1T trees initiative is a st…

You're right. We need two things.

One is carbon-sinks. This can be done by permanent new trees. Or by replacing trees and use the old wood or plastics for buildings. Or make carbon based usables and permenantly bury their waste in deep landfils that don't let out co2. Or by new techniques for sequestering carbon from air. Planting trees and letting them die is only temporary.

Second and most important though is getting more heat out of the planet than in. Focusing on carbon is one thing. But reflecting energy to space also works, e.g. by white roofs, or mirrors, or heat conducting materials that send off energy in frequencies not absorbed by clouds and co2/water/methane.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#98

Post by gooseus » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

I've been wondering about various carbon sequestration methods myself and am glad to see these topics on HN since it is an opportunity to harvest relevant knowledge from the community.

Apologies for tangential topic, but give me a sec and it'll try to tie it back to some other discussions happening here - has anyone here heard of "Cryo Carbon Capture"?

https://sesinnovation.com/faq.html

This seems to involve feeding the exhaust of a power plant into a process which cools the exhaust to the point where CO2 dry ice (and other pollutants) desublimates out of the exhaust and is then extracted for various industrial/commercial applications.

I am curious about this model if it feasible then couldn't this also be used on the exhaust stream of a heater for pyrolysis of fast growing trees, grasses, etc. creating biofuel and biochar?

You can use biofuels to heat the pyrolysis and biochar to sequester carbon in the soil, while also improving it to grow more biomass for sequestration. The cryo-capture handles your CO2 waste streams and further captures carbon in a cold sink (also useful for refrigeration and can maybe act as a "battery" when combined with a Stirling engine?) which also produces CO2 which can be used to enrich biomass grown in greenhouses and has plenty of other commercial uses.

If you add solar and other sustainable power inputs to the cryo-capture process then what you have is basically a farm which creates useful carbon-based products from the atmosphere using plants and basic chemistry... and here is where I hope someone with more knowledge will point out why this isn't already a thing, likely due to some serious inefficiency I'm overlooking.

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#99

Post by fovc » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:20 PM UTC

jerkstate wrote: post #7

I did a rough spreadsheet some time back based on this 1998 EPA carbon sequestration worksheet [1] and found that an average person from a high carbon output country needs about 600-1000 trees to offset their carbon output. There are about 3 trillion trees for a population of 7 billion people for an average of 428 trees per person, so that means you have to make up the delta of about 172 to 572 trees over the course…

So for a one time $600 donation ($1/tree [1]) I can be a carbon neutral person for life? Seems like a bargain. Am I missing something?

[1] https://www.nationalforests.org/get-involved/tree-planting-p...

Re: Tree planting: Where can I do it and which type is best?

#100

Post by Skunkleton » Wed, Jul 31, 2019, 6:26 PM UTC

gooseus wrote: post #98

I've been wondering about various carbon sequestration methods myself and am glad to see these topics on HN since it is an opportunity to harvest relevant knowledge from the community. Apologies for tangential topic, but give me a sec and it'll try to tie it back to some other discussions happening here - has anyone here heard of "Cryo Carbon Capture"? https://sesinnovation.com/faq.html This seems to involve feeding…

> This seems to involve feeding the exhaust of a power plant into a process which cools the exhaust to the point where CO2 dry ice (and other pollutants) desublimates out of the exhaust and is then extracted for various industrial/commercial applications.

Based on what you said, the dry ice would sublimate and just re-release the carbon into the atmosphere. Or did you have a different place for this carbon to go? If so, how are you planning to keep the dry ice cool, and how are you planning on producing it in the first place?