I have a VR setup and would love a fully immersive desktop environment to develop/program in. The display quality of the new Index (for instance) is sufficient... however, the critical show-stopper is not being able to use your hands to type onto a real keyboard (i.e. augmented reality-ish). A real keyboard that you can feel and see as you type on. Both hands would need to be tracked (in addition to the keyboard loca…
Once your hands are on the keys, you don't actually need to see them. So the real question is, how do you find your keyboard in VR? I think the Index's cameras would be sufficient. Alternately, you could place tracking pucks (or just controllers) on either side.
Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
81–90 of 99 posts
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t know that most people would use this, but there’s a definite benefit that a VR headset can give you a grid of six 40” monitors for $400. Or whatever display setup you want. It’s an economical way to get a lot of real estate. The resolution kills that notion for now, but someday it might become a cost effective setup. Add a pair of noise canceling headphones and you can pretend your tiny desk is a private offi…
How far off is current headset resolution from what’s needed for reading code, working with files, audio, video?
- Full clarity along the lens
- Double the resolution of what the current VR has
- Foveated rendering (to be able to handle the high resolution)
- Dynamic focus
- Eye tracking (to get dynamic foveated rendering and focus)
- More comfort (lighter headset, improved finger tracking, better weight distribution, better foam, cooling etc.)
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#83Why do people think this worth trying to implement? Is it because it looked cool in movies like Minority Report ? What is the target demographic for this? What is the use case? Why would I want to add additional and unnecessary complexity to my workflow?
Have you tried Microsoft HoloLens, Virtual Desktop, or BigScreen? It was obvious to me after using them for 30-60 minutes that this is the future of desktops.
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
Once your hands are on the keys, you don't actually need to see them. So the real question is, how do you find your keyboard in VR? I think the Index's cameras would be sufficient. Alternately, you could place tracking pucks (or just controllers) on either side.
Your real keyboard can have a virtual representation in your VR space, just like controllers are
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#85I have a VR setup and would love a fully immersive desktop environment to develop/program in. The display quality of the new Index (for instance) is sufficient... however, the critical show-stopper is not being able to use your hands to type onto a real keyboard (i.e. augmented reality-ish). A real keyboard that you can feel and see as you type on. Both hands would need to be tracked (in addition to the keyboard loca…
> The display quality of the new Index (for instance) is sufficient... Is it? Are the lenses that much better? My Lenovo Explorer WMR is 1440^2 px/eye, and thus has a similar angular resolution to the wider FoV Index. Both are RGB, not Pentile. But I find each eye gets a central circular region something vaguely like 300 px diameter where subpixel rendering is worthwhile (I've a custom render stack), and less than 60…
Yes, the lenses on the Index really are that much better. The difference is enormous.
I'm still not sure the resolution is quite high enough that I'd want to use a VR desktop environment, but I absolutely could now, reasonably comfortably.
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vast majority of Chromebooks are completely useless without Google services. That's not exactly the "freedom" that the Linux community envisioned when they spoke about "The Year of Linux on the Desktop".
Well, you can install regular linux and run whatever you want: https://support.google.com/chromebook/answer/9145439?hl=en
Chromebooks are great for what they are. Fantastic for people that just need access to the web. They're pretty much immune to the technically-challenged.
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I've used or tried most of the major headsets available in the market. None of them is remotely close to a resolution where reading reasonably sized text isn't straining. I use DJI's 1080p drone goggles. With DIY shutter glasses, because DJI didn't expose independent panel inputs. :/ It looks like a 3D TV screen, not VR, but you get readable small fonts from corner-to-corner (almost, depending on whether you also n…
What I wrote has nothing to do with skeuomorphism, only with human anatomy, perception and pretty basic geometry. I am not proposing that windows get rendered with 3d modelled grips for grabbing and moving.
When you use office apps, there's little attempt to maintain physical-world properties like say object permanence. Delete a word, and it "goes someplace, because it can't just vanish"? That would be silly. There's no need to emulate physical paper, or pens, or rubber erasers, or cut-and-paste with an xacto knife, paper fragments, and gooey paste from a jar. It can sometimes be useful or artistically fun to do so, but that's a UX choice.
Or say you're looking at a whole-desktop "window", placed uncomfortably close and large, to be readable despite current HMD's limited angular resolution. When you turn your head, how much does it move? With what velocity profile? And with what alterations in appearance? Skeuomorphism suggests it appear as a real physical object, nailed in space. I found I preferred a quantized 2-3x displacement, to reduce head motion, and enabled it by transiently increased transparency (including "comfort mode" clipping from fov), with slightly delayed motion and added jiggle, so other visual cues could dominate wrt balance. And the shape distorted to maintain pixel alignment, because given my weak gpu, alignment was worth more than temporal antialiasing when reading small fonts. YMMV, as just what combinations of cues are fine vs intolerable varies so much among people.
The common thread is aphysicallity. Skeuomorphism can be useful when onboarding novices, but is later often largely abandoned. As with phones. With the current focus on immersive games and novices, that second part tends to be neglected. I joke that while I use XR hardware, I'm not doing XR, because being focused on non-game non-novice UX, and using a custom non-gaming stack, I've no allegiance to the "R", to Reality. Resemblance to reality as UX design smell.
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#88One of the authors of Simula[1] here (mentioned in this article). xrdesktop looks very impressive. We've been working on our compositor (in particular: XWayland support) for quite a while. Getting a prototype up and running was relatively easy. But it has been incredibly difficult to get everything actually stable/usable. Congrats to your team. [1] https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula
Thanks so much for working on this! I really like multi-monitor setups, and in the limit this can far surpass physical hardware and space limitations. You can scroll more than 360 degrees for a near-infinite workspace. (Just spin around a hyper-sphere repeatedly.) I really want to see this tech succeed. I'd look like an idiot using this at work, but I'm already sold. I'm forced to use a Mac at work -- do you know of…
I don't know of any similar tech for MacOS at this time.
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you tried Microsoft HoloLens, Virtual Desktop, or BigScreen? It was obvious to me after using them for 30-60 minutes that this is the future of desktops.
I did. Then I spent the weekend with a migraine. IMO, VR isn't worth the effort. I'd rather have my brain directly jacked into the computer, as long as there's an effective firewall available to keep advertising and other malware out of my head.
Re: Moving the Linux desktop to another reality
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. If anyone knows of any existing code to support say 3D cross/parallel-eye stereo views, with z-axis displaced words, in an emacs buffer being actively edited, I'd like to hear of it. Teaching your window manager to be 3D is fun, but the next step is to teach your apps.
Interesting idea. What would you use this for?
Another question to ask is, given hardware with 3D tracking and display, how might you usefully tweak your existing tools to leverage that?
Rather than reinventing wheels, languages, keyboards, etc, I like the approach of augmenting what exists. And I use emacs a lot.
TensorFlow posenet-based head tracking is easy.[1] And wiggle 3D, and anaglyph shaders, aren't hard. And making DIY shutter glasses (arduino, phototransistor, and Adafruit light valves) was surprisingly simple. So my generic thinkpad screen can do jittery, washed-out, or flickery 3D. And electron/node.js/v8 can serve up low-latency video of the desktop, to be sliced and diced. So an app can provide two or three eye views, in separate windows or time multiplexed, and it can be shown as 3D. When last I tried to do that separation in emacs, I timed out, still unsure if there was a viable path. Thus my query.
Another thing one might try is to overlay graphics. An emacs could have an arbitrary backchannel chat with the compositor, and draw 3D lines and such on itself. And of course control its own window positions and orientations, fragmentation and coalesce. ;)
If you have red-cyan anaglyph 3D glasses, you might enjoy toying with https://atom.io/themes/anaglyph-syntax - but trading color space for depth is a steep price.
> What would you use this for?
So basically for exploration. What might our tooling now look like, if we'd had 3D display and tracking in widespread use for the last two decades?
[1] https://storage.googleapis.com/tfjs-models/demos/posenet/cam...