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Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

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Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#201

Post by rexgallorum2 »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #184
username90 wrote: post #73

I think the question should not be "Why are there so many poor in USA", but "Why does it suck so much to be poor in USA". I believe that the urban layout and exorbitant healthcare costs are the main issues. If poor neighborhoods were walkable and had cheap supermarkets with fresh produce then you wouldn't need a car, and the density would mean that you have plenty of potential friends within walking distance so you w…

Once again the rural poor get ignored and have their existence denied.

The rural poor face some of the same problems as the urban poor (such as car dependency), combined with a whole host of problems unique to rural life. You're right to point out that rural development is widely overlooked, as is the plight of the rural poor.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#202

Post by [deleted] »

CalRobert wrote: post #163
praptak wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dunno about UK. Settling in Poland is not that hard, although no piece of cake either. I believe you can get a job with the associated temporary residence permit, extend this as many times as necessary to meet the uninterrupted legal stay requirements, then apply for the permanent residence. Getting citizenship is probably a bit harder but not impossible - about a thousand people get it in Poland each year by the dec…

"Get a job with the associated temporary residence permit" I'm not familiar with Poland specifically but this is generally the insurmountable barrier for most folks. Remember not everyone is a dev! "Sick person who works at Best Buy and drives for Lyft on the side" is going to have a really hard time with that step. Generally speaking, employers need to make a reasonable enough case that they couldn't get an EU perso…

[deleted]

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#203

Post by idighkwjt »

spiderkeeper wrote: post #176
CalRobert wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"get out of you don't like it" Nobody saying this has actually researched it. Too many people in the states are under the impression you can just up and move to a European country, no problem. One friendly-but-clueless acquaintance got flown back from Heathrow for asking the immigration officer about where to find jobs when she landed. If you don't/can't: * work in tech or medicine * go to university in Europe in a h…

The people saying this aren’t saying it in good faith. They are saying it because they are racist.

Do you mind if I ask your race? I would like to tell you that you too can leave, but obviously - as a racist - I don’t know if that’s something I want until I can get a picture of how you physically look.

/s.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#204

Post by en-us »

barry-cotter wrote: post #91
username90 wrote: post #73

I think the question should not be "Why are there so many poor in USA", but "Why does it suck so much to be poor in USA". I believe that the urban layout and exorbitant healthcare costs are the main issues. If poor neighborhoods were walkable and had cheap supermarkets with fresh produce then you wouldn't need a car, and the density would mean that you have plenty of potential friends within walking distance so you w…

> If poor neighborhoods were walkable and had cheap supermarkets with fresh produce I don’t know about walkable but poor neighbourhoods full of recent immigrants have cheap supermarkets with fresh produce in the US. The poor neighbourhoods with no fresh produce don’t have it because the people living there don’t want it. https://web.stanford.edu/~diamondr/AllcottDiamondDube_FoodDe... > THE GEOGRAPHY OF POVERTY AND NU…

It should be noted that their findings come entirely from a model they built, and the model was built using existing purchase data. They did no empirical work to verify the model results.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#205

Post by showdeadplease »

guntars wrote: post #68
michaelmrose wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems premature to discount a publication because it once expressed an opinion you disagreed with. If one was a diligent reader then one would quickly conclude that they couldn't trust anyone.

It’s funny how you can say that while the comment you replied to is so pale I can’t even read it. Apparently people will try to bury anything that even has an inkling of something they disagree with.

It's amusing how your account and the one you replied to were created within 2 weeks of each other, but his has 10 times the karma of yours. The hive mind here diligently keeps non-leftist accounts like yours below the "Hacker News poverty line" of 500 karma, so that you can't downvote their comments.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#207

Post by fuzz4lyfe »

michaelt wrote: post #190
EdSharkey wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Democrats (or Republicans when they take power) are clever/smart/kind/honest enough to offer universal single-payer healthcare without rationing. Is there an intent to take my health care choices away, and is that intent benevolent or malicious? You paint a very abstractly wonderful picture, so let's assume yes and benevolent if rationing is to be expected given the finite tax base. I still need more de…

my employer and I pay through the nose for my decent healthcare right now [...] Under your universal single-payer healthcare system, will I still be able to pay quadruple-through-the-nose to buy supplemental insurance Here in the UK, the private health insurance arranged by my employer costs them $450 per year. I don't know how much US insurance costs your employer, but I assume it's several times more, rather than s…

> I don't know how much US insurance costs your employer, but I assume it's several times more, rather than several times less, than mine pays!

You also likely make half what I make and that's before taxes (my wife is from the UK, I looked at jobs over there and rural US IT salaries can beat London IT salaries). I prefer my deal to yours.

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#208

Post by maxheadroom »

idighkwjt wrote: post #198
CalRobert wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Get a job with the associated temporary residence permit" I'm not familiar with Poland specifically but this is generally the insurmountable barrier for most folks. Remember not everyone is a dev! "Sick person who works at Best Buy and drives for Lyft on the side" is going to have a really hard time with that step. Generally speaking, employers need to make a reasonable enough case that they couldn't get an EU perso…

So the issue is that no other country in the world will take them? Even if we assume that’s true, that’s reason enough to be grateful. People are literally dying to break into the country for the opportunity that these folks are complaining is inadequate.

>So the issue is that no other country in the world will take them? Even if we assume that’s true, that’s reason enough to be grateful.

...but you're ignoring the principle that people are flippantly telling them, "If you don't like, just leave!", which is what brought about this discussion in the first place.

It isn't a realistic option when such barriers exist.

>People are literally dying to break into the country for the opportunity that these folks are complaining is inadequate.

This logic doesn't work. People are literally dying to get into the EU and people from the EU emigrate, yeah? If everyone believed in the exceptionalism of their own home country, then no one would leave!

Also, they're probably not complaining about the opportunity as much as other factors, like society (en masse [e.g.: American society, Russian society, Chinese society, etc.]).

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#209

Post by hutzlibu »

throw0101a wrote: post #172
boromisp wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A possible explanation for what you've experienced can be found in the just-world hypothesis [0], or in the belief that we live in a meritocracy. It is simply a foundational part of many people's worldview and nothing sort of experiencing similar traumas will make them reconsider. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

> A possible explanation for what you've experienced can be found in the just-world hypothesis [0] As a sub-class of that, see also the Prosperity Gospel: > Prosperity theology (sometimes referred to as the prosperity gospel, the health and wealth gospel, the gospel of success, or seed faith)[A] is a controversial religious belief among some Protestant Christians, who hold that financial blessing and physical well-be…

"The Book of Job of course is a good counter-example:"

Or Jesus saying about the rich:

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God"

Mark 10,25

Re: Stop Blaming America’s Poor for Their Poverty

#210

Post by raxxorrax »

boromisp wrote: post #71
hestipod wrote: post #33

I was disabled by bad surgery and lost my career. No system that ostensibly should have helped, did. Denied. Denied. Denied. YEARS of adversarial, not default helpful, meetings and challenges and interviews. I saw people worse than me refused help. I saw real time as people who knew me for years or life, who respected me and my career choice helping others, decided I was a lazy mooch who wasn't trying hard enough, wa…

A possible explanation for what you've experienced can be found in the just-world hypothesis [0], or in the belief that we live in a meritocracy. It is simply a foundational part of many people's worldview and nothing sort of experiencing similar traumas will make them reconsider. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis

People like meritocracy because it simply appeals to the desire for fairness which luckily many people like very much. There is no further hypothesis needed to explain why some might like the idea. It doesn't have an inherit contradiction to a standpoint that the advancement of a society should be measured by how the weakest members are treated for example.

The hypothesis you linked can justify monarchies which meritocracy is intrinsically opposed to.

You can find inherent contradictions between freedom and equality for example, so a compromise is needed if you try to achieve both to a sufficient degree.

Social security has its dark sides in Europe and it isn't really clear what its future will look like with demographic problems. Is it better than the American model? I would enthusiastically say yes, but that is more due to corporate interest in medical fields in my opinion. Something the state might have difficulties to solve at this point.

But in many countries social security is in favor of older generations against younger ones. Still, it supplies aid where it is needed for now.

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