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When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

theferrett.com

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Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#81

Post by m463 »

neom wrote: post #5

As an egocentric self-righteous narcissist who spent their 20s making friends by being "right", I'm slowly starting to learn that isn't a fun way to live. I think it's the same thing as when someone you care about is "complaining", you don't always have to help them solve the problem, sometimes they just want to talk.

I read this article about oscar wilde from a recent hacker news post, and some details resonated with me in regard to "the art - and artifice - of conversation."

- "never tell a story because it is true: tell it because it is a good story."

- Even for the men of science, mere facts were never allowed to dominate diversion.

- "the golden rule of conversation" was "to know nothing accurately."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20219628

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#82

Post by bobharris »

I thought of tweleve step programs reading this article.

Things get culty. But what community doesn’t look inclusive and strange to an outsider? Sports? Reps/Dems? Any system not your own?

I think its a lovely article. Spurs up alot of thoughts. Especially when being wrong is considered so bad in the US.

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#83

Post by toasterlovin »

brandonfro wrote: post #51
arkh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> considering men have dominated every aspect of society Some men. And a minority of them.

I’d say quite a lot when you consider local municipalities, churches (at least in the south), and small businesses. Historically, high positions in those places have been held by predominantly men. This isn’t news and it’s irrefutable. Why does it feel like people are combatant to historical facts?

FWIW, men are also overrepresented in the worst that life has to offer. They're more likely to die on the job, commit suicide, and be murdered; they're expected to fight a nation's wars and risk their lives to rescue fellow citizens from perilous situations; and are less likely to attend college and more likely to end up in prison.

There are MRAs and MRA-adjacent people who are gross misogynists. But there are MRAs who make compelling points. Argue against the best version of your opponent's argument, not the worst.

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#84

Post by gorzynsk »

That's why education is so important. If as kinds those people would analyze the evidences of both - flat and sphere earth they would be immune to flat-earth nonsense.

After kinds lose their natural curiosity and gain political views it's nearly impossible to convince them to something different than they believe.

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#85

Post by chantelles »

tomkat0789 wrote: post #4

This was a fun read (until the grim conclusion I guess), but what is the word for this phenomena? Tribalism? Religion? Be sure to stop and consider: would YOU give up all your friends in search of the truth?

"I believe too much in truth not to suppose that there are different truths and different ways of speaking the truth." -Foucault

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#86

Post by jhbadger »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #62

It's not merely "lonely being wrong." It's lonely and you face a wall of open hatred and abuse for merely disagreeing or even wondering out loud if maybe the dominant view isn't 100% right and might have some holes in it. That's completely unnecessary and also often openly breaks a lot of social rules, but people will justify their terrible behavior, the majority will have their back and tell the target of the abuse…

But anti-belief is scientific if the belief for something requires a complete overturning of scientific principles. It's not just an absence of evidence for something. It isn't "open minded" to say "could be..." to Bigfoot, Nessie, or the like -- it's closed minded because to even consider the idea seriously is to think that ecologists and population geneticists have no idea what the minimum habitat of a large animal is or of the minimum viable population size is.

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#87

Post by poloniculmov »

leereeves wrote: post #79
phil248 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with the men's rights movement? The term or concept of "men's rights" could certainly be discussed in a neutral, non-crazy way. But the actual movement as it exists today and the logic that commonly defines it is absolutely as detached from reality as any of those other cult-like ideologies.

Do you have any specific examples of what you mean? Because being angry that Cardi B is still welcome among the Hollywood and Washington elite after admitting to drugging and robbing people (men, specifically) doesn't seem crazy at all. Nor does concern for child grooms (boys forced into marriage at 12 years old). Or a divorced father upset that his children are being taken away by the mother in violation of the cust…

You can see that they're always bashing women and feminism as the cause for these problems, instead of actually trying to fix the issues.

The main difference between feminists and MRAs, is that feminists actually are trying to solve their issues and MRAs bitch on the internet that women are bad. They're doing absolutely nothing to solve the real issues that men are suffering from.

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#88

Post by arkh »

brandonfro wrote: post #51
arkh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> considering men have dominated every aspect of society Some men. And a minority of them.

I’d say quite a lot when you consider local municipalities, churches (at least in the south), and small businesses. Historically, high positions in those places have been held by predominantly men. This isn’t news and it’s irrefutable. Why does it feel like people are combatant to historical facts?

Because low positions in most places have been and still are held predominantly by men.

Should more women vie for those positions too?

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#89

Post by arisAlexis »

all of this said can also be true for any kind of community, even extrapolated to religion, leftist ideas, fascism, fad diets.

There is nothing inherent in flat earthers, most communities outside of academia (and sometimes inside it) that is not about the feeling of belonging somewhere. It is stronger than truth and facts. Always.

Re: When Having Friends Is More Alluring Than Being Right

#90

Post by gdhbcc »

phil248 wrote: post #44
RickS wrote: post #29

I lost my dad to this. So far, nothing helps. I have no idea what the solution is. It only works when THEY want out. But why would they? We're brutally, brutally mean to people like this. Every time somebody dunks on a flat earther or their ilk, puts somebody down to defend the superiority of their own worldview, they've added a brick to the wall that keeps these people from feeling like they can rejoin society. The…

It can't always just be about being nice, unfortunately. Parents who choose not to vaccinate their children could get us all killed. It's a serious threat. If being nice turns out to be the best strategy for curbing this movement, then I am all for it. If screaming in their faces about it turns out to be more effective, then we have to do that. I would love for everyone to be able to "rejoin society" but at a certain…

Humans have existed for hundreds of thousands of years with no vaccines. Let's not be needlessly fearmongering when it comes to their necessity.

In this day and age, given the quality of medical treatment available to most of the population, any outbreak of diseases can be handled in a much better way, and with less comparative casualties than ever before, regardless of the use o vaccines.

Vaccines are useful, there is no doubt about that, but they are in no way a necessity without which we cannot live.

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