There isn't really much of a tablet market • Hacker News Board

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#51

Post by Xuzz » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:24 AM UTC

axod wrote: post #32

Xuzz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much input do you actually do on these websites? Facebook, for a major example, is just a sentence or two for each status update, and a word or two for the chat messages.

a laptop isn't the way it is just to house a keyboard. It's that way so you can sit it on your lap with the screen positioned to view it. I'm not gonna hold a tablet in my hands while I try and use it. (I spend the vast majority of my time sat on a sofa with a laptop).

Funny, I spend the majority of my time on the couch using an iPad (and happily tapping away on my lap, if I have to use the keyboard, which I usually don't).

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#52

Post by foljs » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:27 AM UTC

blinkingled wrote: post #33

Marco Arment, John Gruber and company are so obnoxiously biased against anything that is not Apple that it isn't worth clicking on any links pointing to their sites. It's deja vu all the times if you do - no one can compete with Apple, everyone other than Apple is doomed. Ad-nauseum. With implausible or otherwise manufactured/subjective beliefs sometimes sprinkled in there to make them feel like logical reasons. Ther…

"""Marco Arment, John Gruber and company are so obnoxiously biased against anything that is not Apple that it isn't worth clicking on any links pointing to their sites. It's deja vu all the times if you do - no one can compete with Apple, everyone other than Apple is doomed. Ad-nauseum. """

I know how you feel.

And the most annoying thing is how they always come out right: first the renaissance of Apple and the Mac, the iPod, then iTunes, then the iPhone, then the App Store now the iPad.

All of these getting great sales, redefining industry, and gathering higher market share, while tens of competitors sink or at best manage to offer knock-offs a couple of years later.

Why don't Gruber and company write more like enlightened pundits like Paul Thurrot, Rob Enderle and John Dvorak?

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#53

Post by foljs » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:28 AM UTC

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #29

zephyrfalcon wrote: post #22

Well, no, there isn't really much of a tablet market. It's an emerging market; a year ago it didn't even exist until the iPad single-handedly created it. Everybody else is still trying to catch up. Right now your choices are basically, an iPad, or something else that probably isn't nowhere near as good (unless you count Kindles and Nooks which are much more specialized devices). However, in a few years or so, I can t…

The iPad popularized the Tablet market, it didn't create it. Tablets have existed since 2000.

Creating a market equals popularizing it.

A market of 10 people is not much of a market at all.

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#54

Post by joeguilmette » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:29 AM UTC

axod wrote: post #32

Xuzz wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much input do you actually do on these websites? Facebook, for a major example, is just a sentence or two for each status update, and a word or two for the chat messages.

a laptop isn't the way it is just to house a keyboard. It's that way so you can sit it on your lap with the screen positioned to view it. I'm not gonna hold a tablet in my hands while I try and use it. (I spend the vast majority of my time sat on a sofa with a laptop).

http://www.goincase.com/ipad/

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#55

Post by foljs » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:30 AM UTC

joeguilmette wrote: post #37

guywithabike wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source for that statistic? Or did you just make it up?

96% of statistics are made up.

Actually, that's 93%.

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#56

Post by nlawalker » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:35 AM UTC

rlmw wrote: post #39

Bud wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nook is a reader, not a full-featured tablet. Apples and oranges.

I don't know which nook he is referring to, but the Nook Color is an Android tablet basically with their e-reader software installed. Its not quite as clear cut as all that.

I've never played with another Android device to compare, but I think that the Nook is actually somewhere in-between.

From what I can tell, the Nook runs a customized version of Android. The most important customizations are the home screen (the desktop that can only show Nook books purchased from BN), the overall UI, and the fact that you can't install apps on it without rooting it.

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#57

Post by joeguilmette » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:35 AM UTC

ugh wrote: post #14

joeguilmette wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

80-90% of computer users never leave the browser. The tablet will take over. Everything except power users will be using tablets in 5 years.

That seems a bit too optimistic (pessimistic?) to me. I would predict that more than two-thirds of households will have a tablet in five years. I can see tablets replacing kitchen or living room laptops that have become so common in the last years, I can’t see them replacing the office PC, at least not in five years. PCs (~ $800) and tablets (~ $500) are cheap enough to co-exist. I don’t think it was that long ago wh…

I think a $199 wifi iPad 1 is a few months away. The user experience on such a device will knock the socks off a similarly priced net book.

I believe you're right about the desktop in the office though. The fact that XP is still commonplace in offices goes to show the staying power of the form factor in that setting. I mean, the design of most cubicle farms alone is more suited for desktops than tablets.

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#58

Post by blinkingled » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:37 AM UTC

foljs wrote: post #52

blinkingled wrote: post #33

Marco Arment, John Gruber and company are so obnoxiously biased against anything that is not Apple that it isn't worth clicking on any links pointing to their sites. It's deja vu all the times if you do - no one can compete with Apple, everyone other than Apple is doomed. Ad-nauseum. With implausible or otherwise manufactured/subjective beliefs sometimes sprinkled in there to make them feel like logical reasons. Ther…

"""Marco Arment, John Gruber and company are so obnoxiously biased against anything that is not Apple that it isn't worth clicking on any links pointing to their sites. It's deja vu all the times if you do - no one can compete with Apple, everyone other than Apple is doomed. Ad-nauseum. """ I know how you feel. And the most annoying thing is how they always come out right: first the renaissance of Apple and the Mac,…

Yep - Microsoft has closed shop, Android is not selling at all, Amazon hasn't continued to gain more music selling share, no one is buying Kindles as there is the iPad. And Adobe was going to be in serious trouble too - http://mosspuppet.com/2010/12/21/clearly-adobes-in-real-trou... . I get it yes - for my non-reasoned definition of right I can be always right. Doesn't mean much though.

Oh yeah and market share is not the success criteria - I know that as well. What I "feel" is the criteria.

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#59

Post by Pewpewarrows » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:38 AM UTC

joeguilmette wrote: post #43

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No reasons why? No examples? No comparisons between it and what you would consider "good software"? You might be getting upvoted because the HackerNews hivemind has a giant hard-on for all things Apple, but don't think for a second that you're actually making a valid point. If you want to start an intelligent discussion then go right ahead, but keep the obvious fanboy flamebait out of this.

The UI sucks (ugly, inconsistent). Relative to iOS there is a much, much higher ratio of shitty apps to killer apps. It is too customizable in that non-technical users have a hard time with many features (my girlfriend had no idea how to install, setup or in any way manage widgets, and she is by no means whatsoever computer stupid.). The install procedure for NoLED is a great example of Android's failure to be 'good…

There's an infinite ratio between the killer apps that Android has on its system that Apple doesn't let into its walled garden App Store because it would compete with some included software.

Long-presses are a key interactive element of the Android system. The fact that your girlfriend didn't know about it is no more the fault of Google than Apple's for people who don't know that you can swipe with multiple fingers as actions on iOS.

You're locked into one device. You can't have a physical keyboard with it, you can't use it on any other carrier, it has the same battery life as Android phones, which ends up becoming worse battery life since you can't carry an extra around with you on long trips. There's no cheaper models either. If you're outside of the US you basically have to dump an entire paycheck or two in order to purchase one.

You're forced to spend thousands of dollars on more Mac equipment if you want to develop for iOS. You're forced to use iTunes to sync to it. You're forced to continue to pay Apple a subscription if you want your app to still be available for sale. Developers can sink tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in equipment and employee time into developing an app that will just end up being rejected from the App Store. This is complete bullshit.

There is no real notification system. An alert box that you have to immediately react to is horrible UI design. You can't glance to see notifications in summary, and theres no indication that an app needs your attention after the initial alert box unless you happen to browse to its shortcut. And even then the quantity badge does nothing to inform you of what kind of notification it is. It lumps everything into a vague, undefinable number that could mean any combination of things.

There's no ecosystem nurturing inter-app communication, which is a nasty bi-product of their half-baked multi-tasking implementation. On Android apps can hook into actions menus that are used by other apps. I can attach media from other apps or send data to be used or edited by another app instantly. This doesn't exist on iOS at all.

I can keep going if you'd like. Or you can admit that both products are good on their own merit and at this point it's just a matter of nitpicking and personal taste.

Re: There isn't really much of a tablet market

#60

Post by m0nastic » Sat, Jan 01, 2011, 1:39 AM UTC

Pewpewarrows wrote: post #40

Xuzz wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To avoid reposting the exact same message: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2056896

Certainly valid points, but that isn't even a fraction of what it would take for me to blanket label something as "bad software." Apple definitely took more time polishing the edges of iOS than Google did with Android. Game creation is also a bit lacking with regards to features that developers have access to. That's really the only criticism I can make towards Android having used and developed for both extensively.…

I try not to conflate my personal experience with Android to the world at large, but after owning two Android phones, I can't imagine ever buying another one (where "ever" is defined as the next few years).

The first (a MyTouch 3G) was mediocre software marred by lackluster and underperforming hardware.

The second (the T-Mobile version of the Galaxy S) was fairly nice hardware marred by really shitty software (I blame the completely non-functional GPS on the software, as Samsung alleges that it can fix it with a software update).

From my perspective, there is one thing Android does better than iOS (notifications), a bunch of things that are approximately equal, and a bunch of things that are terrible.