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New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

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Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#181

Post by clinta »

jsilence wrote: post #91
rsweeney21 wrote: post #75

I'm the dev that built Netflix's autoplay of the next episode. We built it first on the web player because it is easy to A/B test new features there. We called it "post-play" at the time. When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. We would come up with all sorts of ideas to try out, and release them to small user populations of about…

Yeah, ever so often when I want to continue watching the current series I realize that autowatch made me watch the whole season while I was asleep on the couch. Really wish autoplay would stop every three or four episodes.

I've been annoyed with it on series that have unique end credit songs per episode. They put that song in there and I'd like to hear it, but autoplay cuts it off and just starts the next episode.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#182

Post by geddy »

godshatter wrote: post #143

Even if we could all agree that autoplay videos and endless scrolling are terrible ideas, I still don't understand why we should get the government involved. Use a service that has them, or refuse to. Find another service that doesn't use them. "There should be a law..." is often the wrong response. At least in my opinion.

Absolutely agreed. There are plenty of things I want politicians removed from - but possibly getting fined over a website I design is absolutely ludicrous. It's like getting rid of deer coming on to your property and eating your flowers by planting landmines. Pretty sure there's something less extreme than making something illegal.

Although these days, everything has to be either extreme this or extreme that, and common sense (like just not using those websites, or utilizing this thing called personal responsibility to recognize and curb your own addictions) has gone the way of the 8-track. Nope, we need the government to start fining people.

This doesn't do anything except make instant-criminals out of people overnight, signed into law by politicians who aren't even remotely close to being experts at the subject matter.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#183

Post by geddy »

djrogers wrote: post #57
bigsassy wrote: post #13

An app I worked on had a similar feature to Snapstreaks, but it was used to help people quit smoking. This bill would have killed this feature that helped many people lead healthier lives.

This bill would only apply to social media sites, so unless your 'quit smoking' app was such, it woulnd't have affected it at all.

Until a 74 year old politician expands "social media site". Come on, you know how this always goes. Slippery slopes and what-not.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#184

Post by beatgammit »

tedunangst wrote: post #149
modoc wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it any different than traditional TV?

Traditional TV usually switches shows, indicating I'm done. Netflix skips credits and openers, turning an entire season into one 20 hour episode.

I personally love that about it. I can watch more episodes in less time with Netflix, whereas I have to sit through the openers and credits for TV.

I also like watching shows while doing something else (e.g. folding laundry), so autoplay makes it so I don't have to worry about engaging with the service between episodes.

Afaik, you can disable it in the settings.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#185

Post by pmontra »

logfromblammo wrote: post #160
saurik wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. So, I totally understand retention: that one makes sense to me, as that's revenue for Netflix; if I'm more likely to renew my account, then Netflix makes more money. But... I honestly don't understand why Netflix is optimizing for hours watched, and in fact I had assumed it would be the op…

I'm not on the inside, but I have a possible explanation. Netflix has competitors. If we assume that leisure-time hours are fixed in the short term, the more hours you spend watching Netflix, the less you have available for Hulu, Amazon Prime, CBS, HBO, MLB, or Disney streaming services. Thus, if all those have comparable prices, more hours watching Netflix translates to greater subscriber-perceived entertainment val…

> Netflix has competitors. If we assume that leisure-time hours are fixed in the short term, the more hours you spend watching Netflix, the less you have available for Hulu, Amazon Prime, CBS, HBO, MLB, or Disney streaming services.

Not only those competitors but any other activity, from reading HN to working to going out with friends, etc.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#186

Post by dantheman »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #75

I'm the dev that built Netflix's autoplay of the next episode. We built it first on the web player because it is easy to A/B test new features there. We called it "post-play" at the time. When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. We would come up with all sorts of ideas to try out, and release them to small user populations of about…

I love this feature :) So thank you.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#187

Post by Rooster61 »

rsweeney21 wrote: post #132
orev wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: how do you feel about having been involved in that feature, knowing that you were creating an addictive product and trying to get people more hooked on it? You might try to say that people have free will and can do what they want, but you know that the reason it’s done is exactly because it’s addictive.

I left Netflix mostly because of this. I've always believed that too much TV was bad for you and I didn't like thinking about how to get people to spend more time on the couch. It doesn't feel great.

To me, Netflix is probably the most benign out of FAANG. I wonder how many people there are at the other companies wringing their hands over the effects of their work. Facebook in particular, what with the exacerbation of vitriol in the country, as well as potential for foreign actor misuse.

I respect you for leaving. I decided a long time ago that the boost in resume for working for one of these companies really wouldn't be worth the moral baggage (Netflix being a possible exception for the reason I stated above).

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#188

Post by asark »

satya71 wrote: post #170
dragonwriter wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, I totally understand retention: that one makes sense to me, as that's revenue for Netflix; if I'm more likely to renew my account, then Netflix makes more money. But... I honestly don't understand why Netflix is optimizing for hours watched, and in fact I had assumed it would be the opposite Hours watched differences may predict retention differences farther in the future better than short-term measurements of…

At least for my case, these optimizations directly led me to stop watching Netflix.

Unstoppable play-while-browsing plus the price hikes has me poised to drop it as soon as I finish two shows I'm near the end of. Probably in the next month. Either problem alone wouldn't get me over the "bother to cancel" speedbump, but I dread opening Netflix unless I'm browsing straight to something I already know is on there, these days. If it were still super cheap, whatever, but I can get a couple cheap services for its price now. Out it goes.

I'll just start picking it up a month a year or so to binge whatever I've missed.

Playing-on-the-menu and autoplay-after-episode would keep me from recommending it to older relatives. The last thing they need is their devices doing shit without their telling them to, especially with audio and video involved for extra confusing-the-hell out of them, doubly so when they're trying to direct it to do something (browsing the media selection). Probably direct them to Hulu, I guess, if they asked.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#189

Post by dantheman »

zbrozek wrote: post #11
GhostVII wrote: post #9

Things like requiring accept and decline checkboxes to be the same font seem somewhat reasonable, even if I disagree with it, but banning autoplay videos and endless scrolling is insane. There are legitimate uses for autoplay videos (ex. Netflix playing next episode, YouTube playing next song when you are listening to music) which I personally use all the time and appreciate, and endless scrolling is great when you d…

While I agree that it's hard to support legislation that's likely to have a lot of unintended consequences, it's also important to realize what's driving folks to introduce a bill like this. It's also worth pointing out that (in particular with Netflix) your example is its own counter-argument. You can't turn off autoplay, and that's the opposite of letting me make choices for myself. There's also plenty of other exa…

What's driving bills like this is simple - people need things to campaign on and instead of addressing real problems they're busy trying to 'solve' easy ones.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#190

Post by asark »

giggles_giggles wrote: post #179
jressey wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why hours watched? Because Netflix wants as much of your time as you're willing to give. The more ingrained they are in your life, the less elastic your demand. We've seen them raise prices and remove just about all of the worthwhile content, and they have more subscribers than ever. Stay tuned for more of this.

I wonder how many of those extra hours watched are because the stream just didn't stop after the person fell asleep. I can't tell you the number of times I've fallen asleep while Netflix played (or walked away) and it went right into some other show I didn't care to watch (and never actually did). If hours streamed is your metric for engagement.. of course having the stream continue on its own would make that number…

Ours has definitely ended up playing to an empty room for a good long while, a few times.
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