Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge • Hacker News Board

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#41

Post by kenhwang » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:29 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #36

UI_at_80x24 wrote: post #18

I used to work for Canon in a different division. It was an interesting company to work for, fantastic human-perks i.e. 2 weeks paid time off (not counted against vacation) if you got married, 1 week of paid time off if you moved. (not counted against vacation) You got your birthday off (paid and not counted against vacation). Upper (middle?) management were all dinosaurs, and stuck in their ways. The entire 'digital…

We live is a world with a distorted notion of success. About 1/2 the people I know who take photography seriously use Canon cameras. I'm also a happy Canon customer. How is this a sinking ship?

Can the people who take photography seriously sustain Canon's camera business on their own? That's the main problem.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#42

Post by throwanem » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:32 PM UTC

hestipod wrote: post #37

throwanem wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to get back into the hobby cheaply, go for one of the prosumer kits, like the Nikon 3xxx/5xxx/7xxx series, or whatever in the Canon line is comparable. (I'm heavily invested in the Nikon F system, and as a hobbyist can't justify investing in Canon as well, so I don't really know anything about their lines.) Film has become extremely niche in the last decade, even among the niche that is interchangeable-le…

I had no desire to live with the limits of film again, I just thought it might be a cheap workaround. Ends up not being the case. I really cannot justify spending at all right now but I have looked at the prosumer stuff you mentioned. While they are good for the new cost there are a lot of compromises and each iteration seems to remove some obvious feature like a remote port or ISO button etc as they keep shoving old…

Give it a couple of years. As I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, mirrorless is already starting to displace mid- to mid-high-range DSLRs into the used market, and by then it should be displacing the high-end stuff too.

(And I feel you about the UI issues. Part of the reason I switched from a D5300 to a D500 was because the prosumer bodies are really designed to be shot in program auto, and you just don't have enough direct control of basic parameters - you need to be in the 7xxx range even to have an aperture dial! I'm waiting for D850s to start hitting the used market in numbers for precisely that reason - 45MP full-frame is just about ideal for the macro work I do, despite the relative DoF loss, and the UI commonality between that and the D500 means I won't have to worry about missing the perfect shot of a wasp or whatever because my hands got confused about how to operate the camera.)

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#43

Post by hestipod » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #40

hestipod wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought about going back to film in order to get back into the hobby "cheaply", but quickly learned it was not going to be cheap at all and not worth the drawbacks even then. Prices are on the rise in all regards. Cameras and glass are "vintage" rather than just old, and priced accordingly. Film and processing costs are stupid high now, not on every corner like before, and not to mention the inability to process, l…

A two-generation-old DSLR is still a really, really good camera and will still absolutely trounce the performance of any reasonably fast 35mm film. Sigma and Tamron are now making affordable glass that goes toe-to-toe with Canon L; there are a lot of good, cheap DSLR lenses hitting the used market right now thanks to the move to mirrorless. If you can avoid getting swept up with the idea that you need the latest and…

Yeah a 6D Mark I (7yo model) would cover anything I am and am likely to be interested in. It's popular in the astrophotography world for it's superb low light performance out of the box. It's on the "better days" shopping list. Hoping EF L glass fades in price as well as people gravitate to R mount as options increase, and don't want to bother with converters.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#44

Post by dheera » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:35 PM UTC

kenhwang wrote: post #41

dheera wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We live is a world with a distorted notion of success. About 1/2 the people I know who take photography seriously use Canon cameras. I'm also a happy Canon customer. How is this a sinking ship?

Can the people who take photography seriously sustain Canon's camera business on their own? That's the main problem.

This might be one of the failure modes of the current incarnation of capitalism. My Canon cameras last me forever and that's why I like them. I consider them a blazing technical and scientific success.

If under the current mode of capitalism they want to "succeed" financially they might need to make crappier cameras on purpose so that people replace them every year.

Crocs are also amazing. I bought a pair and never needed to buy another pair. Bad for their balance sheet, but they are an amazing success in terms of sustainability and not creating trash.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#45

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

zazaraka wrote: post #39

jdietrich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge investment in software and hardware for an almost non-existent user base. Most current DSLRs already have Wifi or a Wifi option; those that don't can be fitted with a Wifi SD card. It turns out that hardly anyone actually uses that feature, because Wifi transfer rates are generally a more problematic bottleneck than the inconvenience of pulling the SD card and putting it into a card reader. The main users…

> for an almost non-existent user base > the kind of person who spends >$1000 on a bulky and complex camera I'm talking about opening up a new market - instagrammers, who already spend money on ring lights, tripods for their phones, but who don't want to learn all the intricacies of using a DSLR camera + adapters + laptop. The DSLR camera makers focus on a constant/shrinking market of pros, while totally ignoring a b…

After all the resizing, compression, and filtering artifacts are applied, I imagine the high price and inconvenience of the additional gadget would be a difficult obstacle to overcome for almost negligible difference in picture quality. DSLRs, even those from the mid 2000s take gorgeous pictures compared to even the best smartphones today, but that difference barely shows on an Instagram feed.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#46

Post by throwanem » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

"Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera?"

Because the computing resource, battery power, and physical volume spent on hardware Instagram integration detracts from what can be devoted to making the camera as good as possible at being a camera. You'd have to cram a smartphone in there, and everyone already has smartphones anyway.

And you can do light editing in-camera, if you want.

"Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable?"

You can. Modern bodies have touchscreens, too.

And I don't want Nikon and Canon worrying about marketing to influencers, because influencers are a terrible market! I want them worrying about making and selling excellent cameras for the use of people who do need more than a phone camera or maybe a cheap camcorder can provide.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#47

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:38 PM UTC

AWildC182 wrote: post #27

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

If people just want auto upload to instagram, they'll use a phone. The advantage of a proper mirrorless/DSLR is the insane power you get with RAW file editing in post.

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#48

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

zazaraka wrote: post #39

jdietrich wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a huge investment in software and hardware for an almost non-existent user base. Most current DSLRs already have Wifi or a Wifi option; those that don't can be fitted with a Wifi SD card. It turns out that hardly anyone actually uses that feature, because Wifi transfer rates are generally a more problematic bottleneck than the inconvenience of pulling the SD card and putting it into a card reader. The main users…

> for an almost non-existent user base > the kind of person who spends >$1000 on a bulky and complex camera I'm talking about opening up a new market - instagrammers, who already spend money on ring lights, tripods for their phones, but who don't want to learn all the intricacies of using a DSLR camera + adapters + laptop. The DSLR camera makers focus on a constant/shrinking market of pros, while totally ignoring a b…

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#49

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #44

kenhwang wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can the people who take photography seriously sustain Canon's camera business on their own? That's the main problem.

This might be one of the failure modes of the current incarnation of capitalism. My Canon cameras last me forever and that's why I like them. I consider them a blazing technical and scientific success. If under the current mode of capitalism they want to "succeed" financially they might need to make crappier cameras on purpose so that people replace them every year. Crocs are also amazing. I bought a pair and never n…

[deleted]

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#50

Post by tomatocracy » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 8:39 PM UTC

AWildC182 wrote: post #27

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

If people just want auto upload to instagram, they'll use a phone. The advantage of a proper mirrorless/DSLR is the insane power you get with RAW file editing in post.

I'd say very high quality optics (bigger sensor and better lenses) is an even better reason.