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Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

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Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#11

Post by saiya-jin »

fetus8 wrote: post #3
mtgx wrote: post #2

This failure was a decade, if not longer, in the making, pretty much since smartphones started replacing DSLRs for travel photos for at least some people. But I'm sure Canon's leaders laughed it off until now.

While smartphones have decimated the smaller portable camera markets, there is still a large market for larger sensor cameras (APS-C, Full Frame, Medium Format, Etc.) Canon specifically has fallen drastically behind their competition in those spaces, allowing Sony to decimate them when it comes to features/performance and cost. Canon's current line up of cameras are missing features that their competitors have had fo…

Exactly. If you want full frame zoomable quality and don't mind the bulk and weight (I don't even on hikes with >1500m altitude difference), there ain't nothing in phones for next decade that can match it.

Photos on best phone sensors look OKish under ideal conditions, and if you don't need any zoom (subpar additional cameras on recent phones are pretty bad so far). Add any zoom, less than ideal light, faster moving objects and even phone sensors rated in DxO Mark over 100 are simply not good enough (I have one of those). Forget night at all.

Yes its enough to clearly see where you are and what you do, but that's about it and any photo aesthetics are often simply not there. Phones of course have huge advantage of almost always being there, but that's another topic. Some of us want to capture important things in life in ways that will stand the test of time better.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#12

Post by fetus8 »

rbritton wrote: post #8
fetus8 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While smartphones have decimated the smaller portable camera markets, there is still a large market for larger sensor cameras (APS-C, Full Frame, Medium Format, Etc.) Canon specifically has fallen drastically behind their competition in those spaces, allowing Sony to decimate them when it comes to features/performance and cost. Canon's current line up of cameras are missing features that their competitors have had fo…

Canon's professional line has been lacking for years in the high ISO sensor performance. Their saving grace has been their lenses, which are still magnitudes better than the competition. That said, third party lensmakers like Sigma and Tamron have really been getting better in recent years, and the premium for Canon glass isn't always justifiable.

High ISO performance, and their auto-focusing systems are put to shame by just about every one else on the market.

While their lens quality and EF mount have probably been their saving grace, I personally don't find their lenses to be worth the cost. I left the Canon ecosystem for Fujifilm's X-Series cameras, and cannot believe the IQ their lenses have, across the board, and they're priced very competitively. I'm just a hobbyist at the end of the day, but when I can get an incredible portrait lens on the second hand market for $650, that rivals L-series glass, it's really really hard to justify that Canon premium.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#13

Post by prolepunk »

I'm a bit interested in making DSLR videos. May I present some anecdotal evidence.

I bought a Canon consumer camcorder (Vixia HF R800) for about $200 last year and it was dismal:

- Tiny sensor -- Terrible performance indoor

- Lacks viewfinder -- terrible performance outdoor

- No 4K, 1080p max

- Abysmal bitrate 25Mbps for 60FPS 1080p

- Connecting power supply when recording introduces 60Hz hum on line in audio.

- Electronics and firmware haven't really been updated since 2014

This seemed like a great little camera, but it let me down on every front.

I ended up upgrading to Panasonic GH4 that cost 5x more, and I'm actually happy with it.

Given how poorly EOS R and EOS RP were reviewed about 6 months ago, I'm not surprised.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#14

Post by zazaraka »

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling.

Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable?

I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier CPU cost, when you have $100 phones with these features?

A lot of influencers would buy these cameras if they had a simple auto-mode (which disables most buttons and hides advanced menus) and upload to instagram feature. The workflow for using a DSLR to post to instagram is terrible, SD-cards, WiFi adapters, laptops, ... Not to mention that you need a lot of technical knowledge to hook everything up. No wonder few bother with the pain.

It's ridiculous that the most expensive cameras in the world can't connect to the number one place in the world where pictures are posted.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#15

Post by fetus8 »

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

Most DSLR/Mirrorless cameras have functionality to send photos directly to an iOS or Android device. They've had features like that going back a couple of years tbh.

annd pretty much every camera has an Auto-mode...

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#16

Post by AlexandrB »

zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

> Why can't download the photos directly to a phone?

You can on some cameras (e.g. Canon 80D), but it’s somewhat cumbersome and eats batteries at a fantastic rate because the camera hosts its own WiFi access point.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#17

Post by leguminous »

rfwhyte wrote: post #9
fetus8 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While smartphones have decimated the smaller portable camera markets, there is still a large market for larger sensor cameras (APS-C, Full Frame, Medium Format, Etc.) Canon specifically has fallen drastically behind their competition in those spaces, allowing Sony to decimate them when it comes to features/performance and cost. Canon's current line up of cameras are missing features that their competitors have had fo…

I think more than anything its that Cannon has really missed the boat when it comes to the transition from still images to video. A decade or two ago, the vast majority of consumers only wanted a camera to shot photographs with, but now most consumers are also at least partially interested in shooting video, with many being primarily interested in video. Other companies have adapted to these changing consumer prefere…

My guess is that Canon is afraid of cannibalizing sales of their cinema cameras, like the C300.

Panasonic and Sony don't seem as worried about cannibalizing theirs, which might be a better strategy in the long run. Fuji and Nikon don't sell cinema cameras, so they have no incentive not to move fast on adding video features to their (previously) still cameras.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#18

Post by UI_at_80x24 »

I used to work for Canon in a different division. It was an interesting company to work for, fantastic human-perks i.e. 2 weeks paid time off (not counted against vacation) if you got married, 1 week of paid time off if you moved. (not counted against vacation) You got your birthday off (paid and not counted against vacation).

Upper (middle?) management were all dinosaurs, and stuck in their ways. The entire 'digital revolution' caught them unaware and unprepared. And most importantly IMHO, they didn't eat their own dogfood. The only saving grace for the printer/copier division was HP's controller boards and drivers.

This was a situation where you knew you were on a sinking ship. Some R&D and advancements were INCREDIBLE, some of the behind the scenes tech was very compelling but I don't think management could get out of the way.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#19

Post by hestipod »

I am probably a minority but I hate live viewfinders as looking at a tiny screen, despite the benefits live exposure composition offers, gives me eyestrain and headaches. I much prefer an optical viewfinder so for this reason I really hope the mirrorless hype isn't going to displace DLSRs entirely and Canon keeps making them.

Bit of a moot point for me at present as all I have is an old Lumix LX1 with manual settings that still takes good photos at 14 years old (just super limited due to sensor size and a 400 max ISO) and had to sell the DSLR for financial reasons. Still have a dream to get back into photography if things ever look up enough I can justify spending on a hobby. I really enjoyed it. I would love to do some astrophotography especially. Even an original 6D (superb low light clarity) and the right lens would probably suit me for life with no compromises to my interests as long as I could keep it serviced and alive. Tried shooting the Milky Way recently with the LX1 but the low light ability won't allow it.

Bright side is maybe even if mirrorless is the future, it would make DLSRs more affordable used as people sell off the "deprecated" tech.

Re: Canon rush to reassure investors as camera profits plunge

#20

Post by [deleted] »

AlexandrB wrote: post #16
zazaraka wrote: post #14

The lack of vision at DSLR companies is mind boggling. Why can't I do light editing and post to Instagram directly from the camera? Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? Why can't I charge from a micro-USB/USB-C cable? I get it that pros don't need these features, but how hard are they to implement? The camera is already $1000+ dollars, how much more could adding a touch screen, a SIM card and a beefier…

> Why can't download the photos directly to a phone? You can on some cameras (e.g. Canon 80D), but it’s somewhat cumbersome and eats batteries at a fantastic rate because the camera hosts its own WiFi access point.

[deleted]
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