New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling • Hacker News Board

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#151

Post by Mathnerd314 » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

Agustus wrote: post #8

If politicians could focus their efforts on actually solving problems instead of giving hand outs to their tort lawyer buddies, we might get a better system. The lawsuits would include: - autoplay of gifs vs web videos - does Pinterest count as an auto scroll ad - does an endless scroll populated with 50% real content count as non-ad? The law will just create more headaches for the producers and less innovation thank…

Unless there are two cases, the Godiva lawsuit is actually for putting "Belgium 1926" on the label and the argument is primarily that the chocolate is not made in Belgium or of Belgian quality. I didn't find any discussion of 1926 in the filing. https://www.faruqilaw.com/case/183/hesse-et-al-v-godiva-choc...

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#152

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:29 PM UTC

godshatter wrote: post #143

Even if we could all agree that autoplay videos and endless scrolling are terrible ideas, I still don't understand why we should get the government involved. Use a service that has them, or refuse to. Find another service that doesn't use them. "There should be a law..." is often the wrong response. At least in my opinion.

Its coming out of a social initiative that deals with the inability of parents to keep social media (and tech in general) addiction of their kids under control. Human beings have a lot of psychological vulnerabilities and, if you watched the senate hearing, you'd know how tech companies exploit some of our innate addictive personality traits to get people hooked on their product. Pick-up "artists" use this to get laid. Advertisers use it to sell their junk products, etc.

Its easy to point out whats wrong, but nobody sticks their neck out and tells people how to fix the situation. Here, someone seems to be trying, and for that I give them some props..

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#153

Post by la_barba » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:31 PM UTC

nemonemo wrote: post #22

I have suspicion that these politicians know what they are doing and they are doing these stupid things with the fullest knowledge that the bill does not help the addicted people. Also probably they know these things don't even threaten the tech giants. Then why are they spending their precious time for such a meaningless bill? This makes me think of McConnell gaining support or lobbying from tobacco industry. Maybe…

You don't seem to be familiar with this. They had a hearing in the Senate, which featured testimony of experts in this field.

https://gizmodo.com/this-is-how-youre-being-manipulated-1835...

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#154

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:33 PM UTC

orev wrote: post #92

rsweeney21 wrote: post #75

I'm the dev that built Netflix's autoplay of the next episode. We built it first on the web player because it is easy to A/B test new features there. We called it "post-play" at the time. When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. We would come up with all sorts of ideas to try out, and release them to small user populations of about…

Serious question: how do you feel about having been involved in that feature, knowing that you were creating an addictive product and trying to get people more hooked on it? You might try to say that people have free will and can do what they want, but you know that the reason it’s done is exactly because it’s addictive.

[deleted]

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#155

Post by ttoinou » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

stri8ed wrote: post #60

csense wrote: post #25

If this is something people want, why does it need a legislative fix? Couldn't we just implement a technical solution and let people choose whether to use it? Like a browser plugin that stops videos from automatically playing?

This could just as well be said about opiates. Human's are not very good at regulating ourselves, when we encounter artificial signals that would have meant success in an earlier time. Not to mention minors, who do not yet have the physical capacity to regulate themselves. Not to say I support this regulation, but there is something to be said for protecting us from our primal selves.

   Human's are not very good at regulating ourselves

Are they better at regulating others ?

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#156

Post by neura » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #95

rsweeney21 wrote: post #75

I'm the dev that built Netflix's autoplay of the next episode. We built it first on the web player because it is easy to A/B test new features there. We called it "post-play" at the time. When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. We would come up with all sorts of ideas to try out, and release them to small user populations of about…

> When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. So, I totally understand retention: that one makes sense to me, as that's revenue for Netflix; if I'm more likely to renew my account, then Netflix makes more money. But... I honestly don't understand why Netflix is optimizing for hours watched, and in fact I had assumed it would be the op…

Just taking a guess that the more you watch, the more value you feel that you're getting for your monthly subscription fee.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#157

Post by RandallBrown » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

jsilence wrote: post #91

rsweeney21 wrote: post #75

I'm the dev that built Netflix's autoplay of the next episode. We built it first on the web player because it is easy to A/B test new features there. We called it "post-play" at the time. When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. We would come up with all sorts of ideas to try out, and release them to small user populations of about…

Yeah, ever so often when I want to continue watching the current series I realize that autowatch made me watch the whole season while I was asleep on the couch. Really wish autoplay would stop every three or four episodes.

It does stop after 3 or 4 episodes.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#158

Post by mgreg » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

rsweeney21 wrote: post #128

saurik wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. So, I totally understand retention: that one makes sense to me, as that's revenue for Netflix; if I'm more likely to renew my account, then Netflix makes more money. But... I honestly don't understand why Netflix is optimizing for hours watched, and in fact I had assumed it would be the op…

Hours watched is a leading indicator of retention. The more people watch, the more likely they are to remain a customer.

This makes sense but I'm guessing there are diminishing returns that may actually turn negative at some point.

I.e. How much more likely is someone who watches 21 hours vs 20 hours to be retained? Then how much more likely is someone who watches 41 hours vs 40 hours to be retained? I'm guessing that on average there is a much smaller difference between 41 and 40 than between 21 and 20.

I'm also guessing it may turn negative as some people have shown they will subscribe for a month, binge on their favorite/new shows, and then cancel. Perhaps renewing in a few months time to do it again.

Would also be curious about other metrics such as search time : watch time. I'd imaging people spending more time searching and less time watching get frustrated and are more likely to cancel. With autoplay it eliminates searching for some.

I'm also curious why there isn't a setting to enable/disable autoplay.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#159

Post by davesmith1983 » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:51 PM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #139

umvi wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another bill will mandate that websites display a banner if the user has been there for too long (to protect internet addicts from being sedentary for too long). Pretty soon only big corps will be able to make a website because there is a phonebook sized stack of regulations you have to comply with.

> Another bill will mandate that websites display a banner if the user has been there for too long Why wait? From Ars's writeup of the same bill[0]: > As described in the text, social media companies would have to limit users to 30 minutes of use per day by default. Users would be allowed to choose their own time limits for daily and weekly use, but companies would have to reset that time limit to half an hour every…

This is what they do on gambling websites in the UK.

Similarly if you are in a Casino you will never see a clock anywhere. Also generally food and drink is pretty cheap and there is normally table service in a Casino because they want you to be at the tables spending your cash.

Re: New bill would ban autoplay videos and endless scrolling

#160

Post by logfromblammo » Tue, Jul 30, 2019, 7:52 PM UTC

saurik wrote: post #95

rsweeney21 wrote: post #75

I'm the dev that built Netflix's autoplay of the next episode. We built it first on the web player because it is easy to A/B test new features there. We called it "post-play" at the time. When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. We would come up with all sorts of ideas to try out, and release them to small user populations of about…

> When I worked there the product team at Netflix had two KPIs all new features were tested against: hours watched and retention. So, I totally understand retention: that one makes sense to me, as that's revenue for Netflix; if I'm more likely to renew my account, then Netflix makes more money. But... I honestly don't understand why Netflix is optimizing for hours watched, and in fact I had assumed it would be the op…

I'm not on the inside, but I have a possible explanation.

Netflix has competitors. If we assume that leisure-time hours are fixed in the short term, the more hours you spend watching Netflix, the less you have available for Hulu, Amazon Prime, CBS, HBO, MLB, or Disney streaming services. Thus, if all those have comparable prices, more hours watching Netflix translates to greater subscriber-perceived entertainment value for money spent on watching Netflix than on the other services.

Netflix does not have to be number one, but it does have to be high enough on people's ranked lists to be above their individual fragmentation threshold.

If a customer's hours watched is low and dropping, Netflix is in danger of losing them as a customer, especially when Disney comes online later.

Perhaps if CBS All Access tracked that number, they would give up, and contract with Netflix or Hulu to stream their content. It seems to me that it is the service that would be least likely to get subscribers that are already at or near their fragmentation tolerance.