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Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

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Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#11

"we did nothing" Who? These companies get sued, that is a reaction. Congress? Well if you make a law twice as illegal, I'm sure that will make it stop /s. No one wants to be hacked, let's not pretend there is no fallout from ignoring security.

Oh come on, do you think these companies are doing everything to protect our data? Why the hell is our credit card applications hosted online anywhere after they've been processed anyway? And for 14 years? No mate, making it doubly illegal (such as actually fining and imprisoning the negligence in leadership that chooses forgiveness over permission) would undoubtedly help. There are plenty of ways to keep our data se…

They probably have approved vendors for their data and SOPs in their DCA and it had information on how to configure it for the cloud and there are signatures and so on. But, it’s unclear whether they took into account rouge internal threats.

Be this on S3 or on your private assets, without proper controls for internal threats these things have a likelihood to happen.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#12

"we did nothing" Who? These companies get sued, that is a reaction. Congress? Well if you make a law twice as illegal, I'm sure that will make it stop /s. No one wants to be hacked, let's not pretend there is no fallout from ignoring security.

Oh come on, do you think these companies are doing everything to protect our data? Why the hell is our credit card applications hosted online anywhere after they've been processed anyway? And for 14 years? No mate, making it doubly illegal (such as actually fining and imprisoning the negligence in leadership that chooses forgiveness over permission) would undoubtedly help. There are plenty of ways to keep our data se…

This line of thinking doesn't work. I want to agree with you, but I can't. An executive could do all the right things by promoting and pushing for security in their organisation and still be hacked. Should he/she face jail now?

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#13
How long before owning a breach databases requires a license in order to avoid a criminal charge? I have to imagine that access to breach info from other sources greatly reduces the work necessary to pull off another breach as users typically use the same "highly secure password" across most, if not all of their online and work accounts. All you need is one breach with weak password hashing -- or no hashing or encryption -- to provide an electronic skeleton key to intruders. The more breaches that occur, I think the more we'll see.

Just curious: if a prior breach, for example the Equifax breach, yields data that enables a future breach like Capital One's, can Equifax be held liable for damage to Capital One?

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#14

Wasn't this a private S3 bucket and she somehow hacked permission access? Anyone know the full details of how this came to happen? As for mitigation, does S3 encryption happen at the user access level (GET) or S3 system level. Basically, does each GET call pass in the decryption key? This means an attacker needs another piece of information. More encryption wouldn't hurt here. This goes for Equifax too.

Basically, I gathered from the indictment that they had a 'WAF misconfiguration', which I take to be SSRF allowing her to obtain temporary AWS credentials from the metadata endpoint, which have the WAF role they talked about, which has sufficient permissions to list buckets and download files etc.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#15
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you dont have a drivers license and other things to show you shouldnt get a credit card. In Europe everyone has to possess a personal ID card or a proper passport, and it is required to be presented to the bank agent (or a verification service). Yes, we do have some problems with faked ID cards and lately by fraudulent video identification, but still - not remotely comparable to the laughable "security" in the U…

That's not the case in the UK - we don't have any single government issued identity document/card that everyone has to have.

The UK is a special case and will not be "Europe" for long besides. Homogenisation of rules can take a while, especially when there is a cultural aversion to them. In this case I'd say there simply has not been enough time for this to happen.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#16

Wasn't this a private S3 bucket and she somehow hacked permission access? Anyone know the full details of how this came to happen? As for mitigation, does S3 encryption happen at the user access level (GET) or S3 system level. Basically, does each GET call pass in the decryption key? This means an attacker needs another piece of information. More encryption wouldn't hurt here. This goes for Equifax too.

I'll preface this by saying that I haven't seen any official resources confirming that it was an S3 bucket issue (although the statement from hacker mentioned releasing "buckets" so it very well could be).

S3 provides server side encryption that encrypts the files at rest. This is done entirely on the server side and does not require any additional keys from the client. However, it is possible to do your own file encryption using your own keys ahead of time, but I imagine that a very small subset of AWS users actually do that.

The way these hacks usually happen is that someone configures the bucket to enable public access, either to the entire bucket or certain files within it, and then someone stumbles upon the bucket's endpoint.

The mitigation is simply not to configure your buckets to be publicly available. That used to be relatively more difficult than it sounds because of a confusing S3 UI, but AWS has recently pushed a number of changes that try to address this issue, including putting a very clear "Public" label next to buckets with these settings, sending emails to users with public buckets, and providing configurations that allow account owners to prevent users from setting buckets to public access.

Some articles are referencing a WAF configuration issue, in which case the above may not fully apply here. The commenter below me mentioned the use of temporary AWS access keys, which can be obtained from an internal AWS service known as the metadata endpoint. Typically this endpoint is only accessible from EC2 nodes (or services that rely on EC2 like Lambda or CodeBuild) and allows AWS to deliver short-lived credentials to the node that can rotate frequently. If this truly was the issue, then it's possible a WAF issue allowed the remote attacker to query the internal endpoint from an external source and obtain credentials that were previously only available to the node itself. From there, the attacker could make AWS API calls to the S3 buckets and download the files.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#17
Not even close to the same.

Granted a misconfigured firewall is surprisingly close to data with no AuthZ/AuthN but the Equifax breach was an operation.

This should be punished but the level of ignorance from both sides highlight just how immature the community is and how little concern we have in handling PII.

Thermodynamics....make the path of least resistance more secure. I feel laws find that by following the money which they seemingly tried to do with equifax.

Surprisingly small fine but on the other side, I have seen many enterprises with numerous processes/controls in place where it wasn't so easy to identify the security through obscurity that was going on.

There's a longer conversation to be had here.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#18

I said this on the other HN thread about CapitalOne but I found it ridiculous that Aaron Swartz was facing a hefty sentence and the culprit behind this hack last I checked is facing up to 5 years??? What the heck? For every person exposed in this hack is a single victim to be added. Not to mention the numerous indirectly affected people part of small businesses. Aaron Swartz hacked some ebooks by comparison harming o…

I think that says a lot about how much vested interest powerful people have in enforcing copyright law.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#19
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you dont have a drivers license and other things to show you shouldnt get a credit card. In Europe everyone has to possess a personal ID card or a proper passport, and it is required to be presented to the bank agent (or a verification service). Yes, we do have some problems with faked ID cards and lately by fraudulent video identification, but still - not remotely comparable to the laughable "security" in the U…

That's not the case in the UK - we don't have any single government issued identity document/card that everyone has to have.

One of many basic cultural differences between the UK and the EU. In the EU you must give up your biometrics (fingerprint) by law. Doesn't surprise me that they are leaving.

Re: Capital One’s breach was inevitable, because we did nothing after Equifax

#20
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you dont have a drivers license and other things to show you shouldnt get a credit card. In Europe everyone has to possess a personal ID card or a proper passport, and it is required to be presented to the bank agent (or a verification service). Yes, we do have some problems with faked ID cards and lately by fraudulent video identification, but still - not remotely comparable to the laughable "security" in the U…

That's not the case in the UK - we don't have any single government issued identity document/card that everyone has to have.

But your identity is verified through some means when opening an account, even if there is no unique document, no?

Example https://www.tsb.co.uk/current-accounts/faqs/identity/

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