Breaking a WoW addiction • Hacker News Board

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#131

Post by ryanelkins » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 5:42 PM UTC

bretpiatt wrote: post #4

Is playing a social game where you interact with other people any different than going out to a club or bar? Joining a bowling league? A cycling group? A health club where you go to regular group exercise classes? The meme that video games are inherently evil needs to go away. Why is it socially acceptable to join many clubs and spend time with those people all the time but not "people on the Internet"? Like the Inte…

I don't play WoW currently and haven't for over a year now but I did enjoy my time playing. I was accused of being an addict although I don't think I was - I just enjoyed playing and hanging out with people online.

It's funny reading this article and all the comments. IT's not so much about WoW vs being productive as diversions in general. I know people who spend most of their free time reading fiction. Isn't that just as bad? What about watching TV and movies? How about browsing the internet for hours on end? Yeah, maybe you learned something interesting, but unless you're going Jeopardy it probably won't really pay off.

Being productive for productivities sake is also an interesting view point. At what point do you decide to just enjoy your life by doing the things you enjoy rather than trying to "make it better". If you enjoy the journey then great - if not, do you arrive at a point where you are satisfied? Or do you continually struggle to reach some goal that is always just out of reach?

Yes - some people may feel trapped in a game like WoW. I think there are also many people who just enjoy the game and the experience and prioritize their life accordingly. Just because someone doesn't have the same aspirations as you doesn't make them a bad person. I'm sure if you ask most people they would like to be more successful - but few are willing to give up all distractions and diversions to achieve that.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#132

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 6:10 PM UTC

JanezStupar wrote: post #105

scotty79 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just accept that is pointless after becoming aware of it but just stay for the ride?

Do you think that Paris Hilton is happy? Do you think that the OP's guild leader is happy? Man is a creature of creation, to be happy Man has to improve upon himself and the world, to create by definition one needs to have some values. Else we just become decadent and decadence does not breed happiness.

[deleted]

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#133

Post by cheald » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 6:29 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #111

It seems to be stated as a fact in this discussion that you can't play a game such as WoW and do anything other productive on the side, but it's a lot more nuanced. Anecdotally, I've been playing WoW almost non stop since it launched and have been raiding once to three times a week. During this time I also got married, had a kid, founded Shopify, overtook the CEO role, grew it to be a multi million dollar business. I…

Fully agreed. I've been playing since launch at a similar level, and I've since gotten married, had a kid, founded and sold a startup, and done a bunch of other stuff. I work from home, so you betcha it takes good time management to not spend time playing when I should be working, but I think I've got a pretty decent handle on it.

(Plus, writing addons is a fantastic way to switch mental gears to recharge sometimes, too. And it's pretty decent residual hobby income, to boot.)

WoW is very easy to spend way too much time in if you're not careful, but it's not inherently evil; like anything which is fun and enjoyable, if you spent an inordinate amount of time on it, that time will eventually have to start coming out of other activities. In moderation, it can be great.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#134

Post by sielskr » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 6:49 PM UTC

hackerblues wrote: post #47

pmorici wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not of the opinion that video games are inherently evil but to say the social experience you get from playing a video game is some how equivalent to that of meeting people face to face is simply wrong. The key difference being body language. So much of successful human interaction comes from non verbal cues and if you're someone for whom that doesn't come naturally then socializing in WoW is not going to provide…

This is partially true but irrelevant. People don't join a club so they can experience body language. I assume they go so they can form a community and interact with people who share the same interest. If visual contact was essential for forming significant relationships then the blind would be unable to make friends.

"If visual contact was essential for forming significant relationships then the blind would be unable to make friends."

Maybe the blind are much less successful at making friends. What is your evidence to the contrary?

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#135

Post by cageface » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 6:54 PM UTC

xal wrote: post #111

It seems to be stated as a fact in this discussion that you can't play a game such as WoW and do anything other productive on the side, but it's a lot more nuanced. Anecdotally, I've been playing WoW almost non stop since it launched and have been raiding once to three times a week. During this time I also got married, had a kid, founded Shopify, overtook the CEO role, grew it to be a multi million dollar business. I…

Good point. As a game and as an immersive environment there's a lot of good to be said for WoW. The game mechanics are actually pretty interesting. I don't think it's inherently any worse a use of time than watching TV. It can be dangerous for people without the discipline to limit their game time though.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#136

Post by cageface » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 6:56 PM UTC

cheald wrote: post #133

xal wrote: post #111

It seems to be stated as a fact in this discussion that you can't play a game such as WoW and do anything other productive on the side, but it's a lot more nuanced. Anecdotally, I've been playing WoW almost non stop since it launched and have been raiding once to three times a week. During this time I also got married, had a kid, founded Shopify, overtook the CEO role, grew it to be a multi million dollar business. I…

Fully agreed. I've been playing since launch at a similar level, and I've since gotten married, had a kid, founded and sold a startup, and done a bunch of other stuff. I work from home, so you betcha it takes good time management to not spend time playing when I should be working, but I think I've got a pretty decent handle on it. (Plus, writing addons is a fantastic way to switch mental gears to recharge sometimes,…

Is there any money to be made writing WoW addons? My impression was that most people were doing it out of love and begging for donations just to cover bandwidth costs.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#137

Post by cheald » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 7:04 PM UTC

The author touches on something that is very important: if you're playing WoW as a substitute for accomplishing things/meeting people/etc, therein lies the problem. At the end of the day, WoW is cheap entertainment, and needs to have priority as such.

I've met friends through WoW, but that hasn't supplanted my need to have real friends. I've accomplished things in WoW, but that hasn't been a substitute for accomplishments in my actual, real life. Heck, to extend the metaphor, I've even made good money with WoW, but it's not a replacement for my normal income.

When you let the the serotonin rush from a raiding achievement replace your desire to accomplish tangible things, then you're in trouble. If you use it as entertainment, an augment to an existing healthy life, it's an entirely different story.

At the end of the day, your gear and achievements and whatnot don't mean anything; they are just trophies of time committed. That's fine, as long as that's all they are; when they become a substitute for real success or social involvement, you've crossed over from entertainment to dependence, and it's a long, dark road from there.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#138

Post by cheald » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 7:08 PM UTC

cageface wrote: post #136

cheald wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fully agreed. I've been playing since launch at a similar level, and I've since gotten married, had a kid, founded and sold a startup, and done a bunch of other stuff. I work from home, so you betcha it takes good time management to not spend time playing when I should be working, but I think I've got a pretty decent handle on it. (Plus, writing addons is a fantastic way to switch mental gears to recharge sometimes,…

Is there any money to be made writing WoW addons? My impression was that most people were doing it out of love and begging for donations just to cover bandwidth costs.

There's good money to be made, yes. Like the app store or Facebook games or whatnot, the best benefits are realized if you're a top-tier developer, but Curse (http://curse.com) runs a revenue-share program with addon authors. Donations don't cover much, generally, but Curse's payouts cover about half of my rent. I use the platform because they provide git repos, automatic release management, and issue tracking, but I'm certainly not going to complain about the revenue share. :)

I write addons because I enjoy writing them, and because they scratch itches I want scratched. I've never sat down and written an addon with financial incentives in mind, but the resultant income is a very nice bonus.

I know a few guys like the QuestHelper guy were making extremely good money off of addons - enough to be a full-time job - but it's very hard to build a career on that; Blizzard can kill that income stream even more easily than Apple can with an app store app, because they continually fold the popular stuff into the base UI. If your massively popular addon has its concept shipped in the base UI, your installed base drops precipitously, and the income stream dries up.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#139

Post by davidwparker » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 7:16 PM UTC

leinerj wrote: post #125

ramanujan wrote: post #64

What WoW needs to do is start hooking in-game rewards to real-life rewards. For example, a deal with 24 Hour Fitness where you need to attend for 30 days in a row to unlock some kind of sword. The biometric system at 24 Hour is now sophisticated enough to permit this kind of tracking [with your permission of course]. I'm completely serious. This is an inversion of the Zynga model in which real life money is exchanged…

(long time lurker here.. this topic is too close to home to just lurk) I'm working on a startup that is taking this concept and applying it to social gaming. We're calling ourselves "Zynga for Heath." We're normalizing activity data from public API's from exercise devices like Fitbit, Nike+, Map My Fitness, biometric devices, etc and assigning it an activity score. Basically, rewarding players for working out, parkin…

Reminds me of this Ted TV Talk by Tom Chatfield:

http://www.ted.com/talks/tom_chatfield_7_ways_games_reward_t...

There was another Ted TV talk that it reminded me of too, but I couldn't remember what it was.

Re: Breaking a WoW addiction

#140

Post by cheald » Fri, Dec 31, 2010, 7:18 PM UTC

rnernento wrote: post #74

Good read. I'd like to add that a lot of the good parts of WoW, (PvP, Social Interaction, Character Customization) have equal or better equivalents in other games that take up far less time. League of Legends, Call of Duty, Counterstrike, Warcraft/Starcraft can all easily be played with friends and in moderation. Devils Advocate: Who are we to say what a "real" accomplishment is. Maybe spending 6-8 hrs in a virtual w…

It's quite easy to say what a real accomplishment is in this case; a WoW achievement or piece of gear is a flag or row in a database. The actual value of the accomplishment is near nil; "real" accomplishments are some improvement to some part of your life as a function of work.

WoW accomplishments only feel like accomplishments because there is an artificial barrier in place to reach them. At the end of the day, the net result is "I added a database row". Compare to something like getting in shape, at which point the net result is "I've improved my health and added 15 years to my life" or to learning a skill that helps you contribute to financial success or the creation of something that increases the beauty in others' lives.

If it were actually difficult or noteworthy to achieve things in WoW, then yes, they would be "real" accomplishments. However, a DBA could run a query and give you 6 years worth of "accomplishments" on a whim (at no cost to anyone else!). How can they be called real accomplishments when, after the varnish has been stripped away, they can be granted with six seconds of work?

There are some real accomplishments to be had - you might learn how to manage people, or the basics of supply and demand and arbitrage and resource speculation, or time management, or hone better reflexes and spatial awareness, etc, but none of those are "WoW accomplishments". What I mean to say is that WoW is not fully valueless, but that the things it presents as "accomplishment" are empty and meaningless at the end of the day.