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Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

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Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#51
post #31

Surely once for-profit companies get involved there is a conflict of interest between poverty alleviation efforts and the interests of share holders/investors.

> Surely once for-profit companies get involved there is a conflict of interest between poverty alleviation efforts and the interests of share holders/investors.

Hint - "not for profit companies" also have interests that may have nothing to do with their supposed clients.

"not for profit" merely means that the investors don't get explicit ownership or dividends. (Many US "not for profits" do special things for their funders and their children.) "not for profit" doesn't mean that the enterprise doesn't make money.

Not-for-profits are often run to benefit the folks working for them. (The higher-education bubble in the US is feeding that right now.)

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#52
post #7

I wonder how many people killed themselves before microlending existed because they had no hope of improving their lot in life.

It's rather remarkable how able people are to tolerate a borderline existence until a concrete metaphor for its inevitability and hopelessness - like an unpayable loan - is thrust into their faces.

How do you know that they wouldn't have killed themselves earlier if the loan didn't provide them some hope of success. Would his business have survived if he didn't take the loan?

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#53
post #37
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

I was so far unable to grasp the justification for the extremely high interest rates of micro loans. What is going on, and how can such high interest rates ever work?

the loans are non-collateralized loans and short-term, and the borrowers are high risk. Think about a pay-day loan with no collateral.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#54
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

Thanks for the post shrikant. Most people don't seem to realize this, and it's in part because of all the attention MFI's are getting rightnow. There's very little data and numbers available, but are some - http://microfinance.cgap.org/2010/11/11/who’s-the-culprit-ac...

This table, taken from the above blog post, was of particular interest. It describes what percentage of the loans are used for what. In looking at these numbers it's important to take into account the types of people to whom loans are given to - that is to say, someone that can get a loan from an MFI may not be able to get a loan from a Bank etc etc.

Also note that certain line items like 'Buy Livestock' may be much higher for something like a Bank because the bank's loan terms may incentivize certain types of loan utilizations.

Any time you see data like this, keep in mind it's far from clean and quite imperfect (data collection methods are door to door and done on foot), so take it with a grain of salt. Also, the columns may not add up to 100 because some double c counting goes on (i.e. if a respondent used the loan for more than one thing it will be counted more than once under separate categories) But if this data is an indication of what actually goes on in microfinance, it's not quite being capitalized for it's intended purposes. This seems explainable in that at the end of the day a line of credit is a line of credit no matter what verbage you attach to it. We call it a microfinance loan, but the people that receive these loans probably don't know what microfinance loans are; that's to say they probably just call them loans.

 		Usage of Loan Money by Type of Lender

				Bank	MFI	SHG	Informal
 Start new business		2.0%	2.5%	1.9%	1.1%
 Buy agricultural inputs	57.5%	13.2%	19.3%	19.9%
 Purchase stock			3.0%	9.9%	4.2%	2.7%
 Buy livestock			2.7%	6.0%	5.6%	1.7%
 Purchase land			0.8%	0.9%	0.7%	0.6%
 Home improvement		9.7%	22.1%	13.0%	14.2%
 Repay old debt			14.6%	25.4%	20.4%	7.0%
 Health				11.4%	10.9%	18.6%	25.3%
 Education			4.1%	4.4%	5.7%	5.3%
 Marriage			4.3%	4.8%	2.2%	12.2%
 Funeral			0.1%	0.2%	0.5%	1.7%
 Other festival			0.6%	3.5%	3.6%	4.8%
 Unemployment			0.0%	0.0%	0.1%	0.8%
 Purchase jewellery		0.5%	0.6%	1.6%	0.4%
 Other consumption		26.5%	31.6%	49.9%	24.9%

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#55
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was so far unable to grasp the justification for the extremely high interest rates of micro loans. What is going on, and how can such high interest rates ever work?

They are risky investments in projects which supposedly have high rates of return.

also high rates of default

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#56
Every life counts. But I feel like this is only showing one side of the issue. Capital is distilled, economic trust. All human beings deserve a baseline level of trust. As such, access to capital is a human right. Without some form of trust extended to those in poverty (through capital lending or otherwise) how could they ever emerge from their poverty?

I hope this does not sound too callous. Every single suicide is a tragedy. But only 70 of 14,364 suicides were related to microloans -- only half a percent. 70 suicides represents only one millionth of Andhra Pradesh's population, a state with an infant mortality rate of 5.2%. If the actions of those 70 suicides merely improve infant mortality by even one percent for one percent of the population, microfinance will have paid itself back for the health of families several fold -- and for the families who strove and succeeded, not those who, by their own actions, created a situation they did not have the willpower to escape.

1.2 million people a year are killed by automobiles -- and yet they have given us tremendous freedom. The solution to the problem of automobile deaths is not an outright ban, but infrastructure, norms, and education -- which can drop deaths from nearly than 80 per annum per 100,000 inhabitants in Iraq and Iran to over 50 in South Africa to less than 5 in Canada, Australia and Argentina.

Though hundreds die from general anaesthesia each year, its positive impact on medicine and surgery has been tremendous. The solution to these deaths is not a ban, but improved education, environmental support, and systematic changes in health care (see for example: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/09/how-amer...)

Access to capital -- and more generally, access to trust, is a powerful force. Wielded properly, it is can be a tremendously powerful tool for good -- but also for harm.

I hope that these revelations will be a learning experience, and force us to think more deeply about how to connect with the impoverished. Clearly, access to capital alone is not enough to enable the ascension from poverty. But in many cases, it is a limiting factor. We must not retract willingness to lending of capital -- our trust in a whole class of impoverished people -- as a result of these early mistakes.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#57
If propert rights included poor people's properties nobody would have to pay 24% interest.This happened 100-300 years ago in Europe and America.According to Hernando de Soto this is what it takes to make capitalism work.If you leave out the majority of people you tend to leave out, if not the majority,a large fraction of the capital.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#58

Every life counts. But I feel like this is only showing one side of the issue. Capital is distilled, economic trust. All human beings deserve a baseline level of trust. As such, access to capital is a human right. Without some form of trust extended to those in poverty (through capital lending or otherwise) how could they ever emerge from their poverty? I hope this does not sound too callous. Every single suicide is…

Capital - assets available for use in the production of further assets http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=120...

Baseline level of trust = 100% risk

100% risk = 0% return

0% return = Charity

That's not to say charity doesn't have a place in the world. But the conversation about microfinance is about empowering individuals, and you don't empower individuals by writing them a blank check. You empower them by helping them overcome difficulties (i.e. paying back loans that may or may not be favorable to them).

To touch a little more on the suicides, these loans are often structured such that 3 or 4 people are cosigned. So if I can't pay, the other cosigners have to pay. Social pressures can make people do extreme things. When the article says stuff like

Shobha, head of several groups of women borrowers, was being pressured to pay interest on her 12,000 rupee ($265) loan. Lenders also were demanding that she cover for the other women, even though the state had restricted microfinance activities two weeks earlier, Bloomberg Markets magazine reports in its February issue.

The don't point out that that's the kind of agreement she signed up for. There's no collateral, so the social pressure is intended to serve as the incentive to repay. Of course this has consequences. To draw a parallel, think about social pressures in an enclosed environment where people are counting on you, like the office or high school.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#59
post #54
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

Thanks for the post shrikant. Most people don't seem to realize this, and it's in part because of all the attention MFI's are getting rightnow. There's very little data and numbers available, but are some - http://microfinance.cgap.org/2010/11/11/who’s-the-culprit-ac... This table, taken from the above blog post, was of particular interest. It describes what percentage of the loans are used for what. In looking at th…

[...] the people that receive these loans probably don't know what microfinance loans are; that's to say they probably just call them loans.

And this is the crux of the issue.

The table only denotes what the borrower took the loan for, and not for what actual use the money was put to. Basically it boils down to this: once the money is in their hands, unless the borrowers have had some information dissemination of a substantial sort, it can be used for any purpose.

It is typically the lending party's duty to take solid steps towards educating the borrower as to the actual purpose of the loans, and MFIs in India (IMHO) were initially doing a stellar job of this (ok, well, SKS at least - I sat in on some of their 'group training seminars'). I'm not close to the domain now for about a year though, so I couldn't comment for sure any more.

As an aside: (I don't think they'll take action against me for saying good things about them, so I'll go right ahead) SKS' impairment levels were so ridiculously low that I would end up manually re-calculating the figures to ensure Mondrian wasn't lying to me or our software wasn't badly broken.

As another aside: there is also an emerging trend of 'micro-insurance' products (livestock insurance, crop insurance, 'hut' insurance, etc.) being offered by MFIs as well as large insurance companies which I did a field study on, which reached conclusions similar to what I learned from the SKS project - the illiterate and poor initially cannot even conceive that someone would want to help them out without shafting them, but with substantial education to a few key influential and smart members of the community, the message can be gotten across.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#60
post #58

Every life counts. But I feel like this is only showing one side of the issue. Capital is distilled, economic trust. All human beings deserve a baseline level of trust. As such, access to capital is a human right. Without some form of trust extended to those in poverty (through capital lending or otherwise) how could they ever emerge from their poverty? I hope this does not sound too callous. Every single suicide is…

Capital - assets available for use in the production of further assets http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=120... Baseline level of trust = 100% risk 100% risk = 0% return 0% return = Charity That's not to say charity doesn't have a place in the world. But the conversation about microfinance is about empowering individuals, and you don't empower individuals by writing them a blank check. You empower them…

Why would a baseline level of trust equate to 100% risk?
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