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Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

smithsonianmag.com

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Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#101

Post by zacharycohn »

hutzlibu wrote: post #72
teddyh wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the examiner was convinced I used more drugs than I let on No they weren’t. They merely pretended they were convinced. It’s all part of the act to make you nervous.

Possible, but how can you know for sure, if you were not there?

The parent poster is correct. This is a standard practice for polygraph interviews. The pick one question, more or less at random, and double/triple/quadruple down on it until you break. Or don't.

I got "have you ever committed a crime" (and after a actually pretty cool conversation about filesharing vs recording songs off the radio with a tape recorder, I passed). A friend of mine got "have you ever had sex with animals." I don't think he enjoyed his experience quite as much.

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#102

Post by zacharycohn »

throwawy123 wrote: post #36

I took a polygraph twice for an NSA internship (TS/CSI Clearance). It's an interesting process. In the first phase, you go over your security forms (SF-86 and related) in detail with your polygraph examiner. They ask a lot of detailed questions, sometimes including things you aren't legally required to disclose (drug use and foreign travel outside the listed time limits). In the second phase, they hook you up to the…

Was this a high school internship? If so, I think we went to the same school system.

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#103

Post by Causality1 »

throwawy123 wrote: post #36

I took a polygraph twice for an NSA internship (TS/CSI Clearance). It's an interesting process. In the first phase, you go over your security forms (SF-86 and related) in detail with your polygraph examiner. They ask a lot of detailed questions, sometimes including things you aren't legally required to disclose (drug use and foreign travel outside the listed time limits). In the second phase, they hook you up to the…

I wonder if you could get prosecuted or investigated for things you admit to during the interview. I also wonder if there's any sort of legal privacy requirement that stops the examiner or someone else with records access from spreading around information related to your examination. I'd warrant most people have gotten away with doing things that should've gotten them arrested.

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#104

Post by dang »

Some relevant previous threads:

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18431683

2018 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18120270

2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10002889

2015 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9481385

2013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6308878

2013 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6307479

2009 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=428489

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#105

Post by godelski »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #74
nxpnsv wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trying to keep a random number secret likely is less stressful than an actual lie. Even if lie detectors worked this wouldn’t be a great approach. My way is better, scrap them for parts and buy beer for whatever is left over.

What about if you keep it secret you get $1000

There's a bias in gaining value you don't have and losing value you already have. People are much more risk adverse when losing value, even if small. So you'd have to give them the $1k first, probably for performing some task. Put the money in their have, continue with the distraction test to let the value sink in. THEN if they fail they lose the money. And even then this won't fully match the risk aversion models, but it'll better simulate it. These things are hard to measure.

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#106

Post by dheera »

throwawy123 wrote: post #36

I took a polygraph twice for an NSA internship (TS/CSI Clearance). It's an interesting process. In the first phase, you go over your security forms (SF-86 and related) in detail with your polygraph examiner. They ask a lot of detailed questions, sometimes including things you aren't legally required to disclose (drug use and foreign travel outside the listed time limits). In the second phase, they hook you up to the…

> questions about foreign contacts

This sounds unreasonably intrusive IMO. What if you have a couple thousand acquaintances and friends around the world?

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#107

Post by derivagral »

xorcist wrote: post #99
blackflame7000 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the machine itself that's intimidating, it's the consequence of being caught lying and the accompanying loss of freedom or job opportunity.

Sure, but nobody chose a wizard's hat or a dowsing rod, so there must be some cultural significance to it completely beyond my understanding?

Sadly (and incredibly) this is not always true: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ADE_651

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#108

Post by SignalsFromBob »

Spearchucker wrote: post #71

I've done a few and never failed one. Was told to clench my butt cheeks really hard to get a pass. Another tip was to put a drawing pin into your shoe and push down onto it with your foot as hard s you were able to tolerate. And if you search online there are a few other techniques you can use to ace the tests. Most interesting for me was being told I'd failed a test I was later told I'd passed. It's sheer madness.

> Most interesting for me was being told I'd failed a test I was later told I'd passed. It's sheer madness.

It's pseudoscience. They might as well have [measured the size of your head][1] to make their decision.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrenology

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#109

Post by mipmap04 »

Causality1 wrote: post #103
throwawy123 wrote: post #36

I took a polygraph twice for an NSA internship (TS/CSI Clearance). It's an interesting process. In the first phase, you go over your security forms (SF-86 and related) in detail with your polygraph examiner. They ask a lot of detailed questions, sometimes including things you aren't legally required to disclose (drug use and foreign travel outside the listed time limits). In the second phase, they hook you up to the…

I wonder if you could get prosecuted or investigated for things you admit to during the interview. I also wonder if there's any sort of legal privacy requirement that stops the examiner or someone else with records access from spreading around information related to your examination. I'd warrant most people have gotten away with doing things that should've gotten them arrested.

They do threaten legal action if you lie about something on your SF-86.

Re: Why Lie Detector Tests Can’t Be Trusted

#110

Post by scarejunba »

dheera wrote: post #106
throwawy123 wrote: post #36

I took a polygraph twice for an NSA internship (TS/CSI Clearance). It's an interesting process. In the first phase, you go over your security forms (SF-86 and related) in detail with your polygraph examiner. They ask a lot of detailed questions, sometimes including things you aren't legally required to disclose (drug use and foreign travel outside the listed time limits). In the second phase, they hook you up to the…

> questions about foreign contacts This sounds unreasonably intrusive IMO. What if you have a couple thousand acquaintances and friends around the world?

It's the NSA, dude. They specifically want someone who'll be _their spook_. What makes you think they want Mr. Cosmopolitan who lunches with Erdogan's third cousin and breakfasts with the Pope? Nothing about it sounds unreasonably intrusive. The national security guys should be rightfully paranoid.
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