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Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

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Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#91

Post by csomar »

nradov wrote: post #72
technothrasher wrote: post #41

"Chaser was taught to understand sentences containing a prepositional object, verb and direct object." I would have never believed this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. A friend has a golden retriever that I was playing with one day, and I asked him to get me a stick. He did, but it wasn't the stick I was thinking of, so I just off hand said, "no, not that stick, the one by the rock." and damn if that dog didn't…

I wonder what would happen if we selectively bred dogs for that type of intelligence rather than for appearance and temperment? What are the upper limits of canine intelligence?

We've been doing that. However, we have been selecting particularly for obedience which limited their intelligence.

We don't want actually a dog that is super-intelligent but just one that is funny, protective and smart-enough.

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#92

Post by csomar »

technothrasher wrote: post #41

"Chaser was taught to understand sentences containing a prepositional object, verb and direct object." I would have never believed this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. A friend has a golden retriever that I was playing with one day, and I asked him to get me a stick. He did, but it wasn't the stick I was thinking of, so I just off hand said, "no, not that stick, the one by the rock." and damn if that dog didn't…

Did you point with your fingers or just talked. That would be really amazing if you just talked without finger-pointing as that would require more guess-work from the dog.

I don't think the dog understands exactly what you are saying but they are doing guess-work and trying to please. I had a puppy that I was trying to potty-train outside the apartment.

It didn't go very well. Until one time I'm back home and I found out she did it near the sofa. I screamed. She became quite disciplined after that. She guessed that potty-location is very important and something she has to care about.

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#93

Post by tluyben2 »

csomar wrote: post #91
nradov wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what would happen if we selectively bred dogs for that type of intelligence rather than for appearance and temperment? What are the upper limits of canine intelligence?

We've been doing that. However, we have been selecting particularly for obedience which limited their intelligence. We don't want actually a dog that is super-intelligent but just one that is funny, protective and smart-enough.

We adopted some dogs that have been abandoned; those you don't pick for any traits besides them not being completely crazy/vicious. We had (and have) ones that no-one wants because they are too smart; they are escape artists and very good thieves. They know how to trick you. They are absolutely not obedient, even after training (they seem to train easy, but they are just doing what gives them the quickest treat; if that ends they immediately stop again). I like them more than the obedient ones really.

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#94

Post by S_A_P »

technothrasher wrote: post #41

"Chaser was taught to understand sentences containing a prepositional object, verb and direct object." I would have never believed this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. A friend has a golden retriever that I was playing with one day, and I asked him to get me a stick. He did, but it wasn't the stick I was thinking of, so I just off hand said, "no, not that stick, the one by the rock." and damn if that dog didn't…

I have a maltipoo(wifes choice) that was especially difficult to train, and hard headed. I thought it was because he was not especially bright, but turns out to be the opposite. I tell him get me a ball, he runs off and returns with a ball. I tell him get me his rope, same thing. In the morning he jumps on me and wants to go outside, when I want to snooze a bit, I say "go lay down", no pointing no body language to read he goes and lays at my feet for a while longer.

Watched the attached video of chaser, and totally agree with one point made- play is the way to teach an animal, not food. Dogs love exercise, and training with food is a great way to make your dog obese, which will make exercise more difficult and its overall happiness reduced. My dogs are 10x happier when they hear "you wanna go for a walk?" than "do you want a treat?"

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#95

Post by vidarh »

bodski wrote: post #82
nradov wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what would happen if we selectively bred dogs for that type of intelligence rather than for appearance and temperment? What are the upper limits of canine intelligence?

Brunner's 'Shockwave Rider' has an interesting vision of how super-intelligent dogs might take care of security for village sized human communities.

Since bringing up books, Clifford D. Simak's "City" is recounted by dogs being told stories about humans, and how they disappeared, while asking questions about human civilization such as what a "city" is, and what "war" is.

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#96

Post by clukic »

kortilla wrote: post #53
clukic wrote: post #52

I read a book about Chaser shortly before I got my pup. And I followed much a what I read, naming everything he came in contact with, talking to him using familiar nouns and verbs, not wasting words. At almost 3, he's not Chaser smart, but he has developed an ear that can recognize the most subtle variations in words, and he can figure out novel combinations of nouns/verbs sometimes with a direct obect. For example r…

I have a puppy collie/Shepard mix that is about a year old. Do you have any tips/suggestions? Do you regret getting such a smart dog in general?

A dog's life is pretty boring. There's a lot of laying around, a lot of waiting to eat and go for a walk. A smart dog needs things to do, and it's work for you to make that happen. Talking, TV, computers, work, the things we fill our time with a dog can't participate in. My dog is in perpetual state of disappointment and mopiness, just waiting for the next interesting, stimulating thing to happen. I could train him for hours on end and he'd never get bored, but laying on the floor watching me sit in front of a computer, he can barely contain his boredom.

We had a trainer once who said the hardest thing for a smart dog to do is to just ignore stimuli. You're putting together furniture, cleaning the closet, setting up a stereo, what's that? where does it go? what does it smell like? Is this a game? Can I help?

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#97

Post by clukic »

kortilla wrote: post #53
clukic wrote: post #52

I read a book about Chaser shortly before I got my pup. And I followed much a what I read, naming everything he came in contact with, talking to him using familiar nouns and verbs, not wasting words. At almost 3, he's not Chaser smart, but he has developed an ear that can recognize the most subtle variations in words, and he can figure out novel combinations of nouns/verbs sometimes with a direct obect. For example r…

I have a puppy collie/Shepard mix that is about a year old. Do you have any tips/suggestions? Do you regret getting such a smart dog in general?

One of the things that was very useful for me was that I got my dog while travelling, and he spent the first couple years of his life in different countries. The whole time I was keenly aware of the difficulties of picking up language, and so I would talk to him like I wanted someone to talk to me in Italian/Spanish/German/Czech...slowly, in simple phrases, using words I know in the present tense.

Just pretend you got picked up by aliens who only communicate via flashing lights. After months you might be able to associate certain light combinations and color are associated with food, with being allowed to use the bathroom, with types of interaction, and if you were really smart you might be able to figure out verbs and simple sentence structure, but those lights need to be flashing slowly and distinctly, and if the aliens start using the same light to mean two different things then you're going to get screwed up. For another species to grasp our language is an incredible thing, something no human has ever done, you have to keep things incredibly simple and teach them as if you were teaching language, not just saying what comes into your head.

My dog is frequently confused when he eaves drops on conversations and hears some one talk, for instance, about a long drive to the beach last year, and he waits at the door excited to go. And I have to think why is he waiting at the door, does have to pee? why is he so excited?

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#98

Post by pvaldes »

nradov wrote: post #72
technothrasher wrote: post #41

"Chaser was taught to understand sentences containing a prepositional object, verb and direct object." I would have never believed this if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes. A friend has a golden retriever that I was playing with one day, and I asked him to get me a stick. He did, but it wasn't the stick I was thinking of, so I just off hand said, "no, not that stick, the one by the rock." and damn if that dog didn't…

I wonder what would happen if we selectively bred dogs for that type of intelligence rather than for appearance and temperment? What are the upper limits of canine intelligence?

A wolf will be always the most intelligent dog bred available. You can't easily improve the job of millions of years selecting the brightest animals. Not in 50 or 100 years.

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#99

Post by bonniemuffin »

csomar wrote: post #91
nradov wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what would happen if we selectively bred dogs for that type of intelligence rather than for appearance and temperment? What are the upper limits of canine intelligence?

We've been doing that. However, we have been selecting particularly for obedience which limited their intelligence. We don't want actually a dog that is super-intelligent but just one that is funny, protective and smart-enough.

A super-intelligent dog would be a pretty bad pet. Smart dogs get bored, and bored dogs get into trouble. A super-intelligent dog would be able to get into entirely new kinds of trouble. It would take a huge effort to keep it entertained and happy and well-adjusted.

A dog like that would need a full-time job, rather than being just a household pet.

Re: Border Collie Trained to Recognize 1,022 Nouns Dies

#100

Post by bonniemuffin »

alluro2 wrote: post #54
kortilla wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a puppy collie/Shepard mix that is about a year old. Do you have any tips/suggestions? Do you regret getting such a smart dog in general?

Genuinely curious - is there any reason why person would potentially prefer a less smart dog? I always thought that, the smarter they are, the better companions they can be, so your comment got me wondering.

I had a stupid dog (took him months to learn his own name) and now I have a smart dog, and I really miss the dumb one. It was so easy to keep him happy and satisfied and well-adjusted. He loved people and was just happy to lay around all day and then hang out with us when we got home from work. The smart dog requires constant entertainment and interaction to keep him from going insane.
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