A new study of rudeness in the workplace • Hacker News Board

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#11

Post by mharroun » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:51 PM UTC

bigred100 wrote: post #3

mharroun wrote: post #2

How do you define being rude? From what I read and experienced in my career the real reason "rude" people get away with what they are doing is simple. They tend to be top or above average performers who don't like when co-workers who are sub par are treated and rewarded as their equals. I have met many sub-par workers who love to throw around the word "toxic" to define and attack such people. I have seen such "rude"…

This sounds like something a coworker would write. Unfortunately the individual was not actually a top performer—just convinced that he was. He would consistently say things that were objectively wrong (lot of math in our field... pretty easy to verify with certainty whether someone knows what he’s talking about), but the rest of us were polite enough not to point his misunderstandings out very often as he would frea…

So why wasn't he terminated if he had sub par performance and was also someone who causes friction? Did no one speak up about the issue... or is that "rude" behavior?

To me is sound that 1 of 3 things are happening:

- Management sucks and cannot objectively see who is successful as doing what.

- The person is not subpar and that is your own personal feelings

- Most of the company's full of "nice guys/girls" and the building could be on fire and they would still applaud any small insignificant win while the whole place burns. They fail to deal with anyone failures and issues including the rude person and so they just deal with it and complain via whispers.

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#12

Post by rplst8 » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 8:58 PM UTC

Rude people suck plain and simple. I was once young and overbearing, and since then I've been on the receiving end of that and it's total bullshit.

I'm not saying we should coddle people in the professional world, but we sure as shit shouldn't have to deal with coworkers psychological and anger management issues.

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#13

Post by rfrey » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:01 PM UTC

In 25 years of working in the software industry, I have never witnessed somebody's assholity defended by their performance. I have also never encountered... NEVER encountered... an asshole who was also a top performer.

In contrast, the top 7 performers I can think of off the top of my head were to a person kind, generous with their knowledge, patient with those less talented, and generally Good People, both to work with and to be around in general.

So there's my anecdote to counter yours.

I will note that although I have never met an asshole who was a top performer, I have met many who were convinced that they were.

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#14

Post by factotvm » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

mharroun wrote: post #11

bigred100 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like something a coworker would write. Unfortunately the individual was not actually a top performer—just convinced that he was. He would consistently say things that were objectively wrong (lot of math in our field... pretty easy to verify with certainty whether someone knows what he’s talking about), but the rest of us were polite enough not to point his misunderstandings out very often as he would frea…

So why wasn't he terminated if he had sub par performance and was also someone who causes friction? Did no one speak up about the issue... or is that "rude" behavior? To me is sound that 1 of 3 things are happening: - Management sucks and cannot objectively see who is successful as doing what. - The person is not subpar and that is your own personal feelings - Most of the company's full of "nice guys/girls" and the b…

> Slightly above average with a complex...

I don't think this person would get fired anywhere I've worked. It's difficult and expensive to fire someone. You open yourself up to possible legal action even if you put them on a performance improvement plan. The best is to try and manage them out, but if the work you need to get done outstrips the people able to do it, you'll keep that above average person who thinks more of themselves than they should.

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#15

Post by usefulcat » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:08 PM UTC

rfrey wrote: post #13

In 25 years of working in the software industry, I have never witnessed somebody's assholity defended by their performance. I have also never encountered... NEVER encountered... an asshole who was also a top performer. In contrast, the top 7 performers I can think of off the top of my head were to a person kind, generous with their knowledge, patient with those less talented, and generally Good People, both to work w…

>I will note that although I have never met an asshole who was a top performer, I have met many who were convinced that they were.

Definitely this. I find that insecurity also correlates strongly with the above description.

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#16

Post by mharroun » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:10 PM UTC

rfrey wrote: post #13

In 25 years of working in the software industry, I have never witnessed somebody's assholity defended by their performance. I have also never encountered... NEVER encountered... an asshole who was also a top performer. In contrast, the top 7 performers I can think of off the top of my head were to a person kind, generous with their knowledge, patient with those less talented, and generally Good People, both to work w…

To be clear there are under performing assholes just they usual get the ax quickly if management is competent.

How would those 7 top performers act if placed alone in a situation of failure? Where its obvious the company is failing and is clear is certain individuals? Is it not "rude" to point that out? Or are we defining being rude or assholity differently?

I personally seen many times people who push back or raise justified criticism of anything be labeled as "rude"/"toxic"/"assholish".

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#17

Post by mharroun » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:15 PM UTC

usefulcat wrote: post #15

rfrey wrote: post #13

In 25 years of working in the software industry, I have never witnessed somebody's assholity defended by their performance. I have also never encountered... NEVER encountered... an asshole who was also a top performer. In contrast, the top 7 performers I can think of off the top of my head were to a person kind, generous with their knowledge, patient with those less talented, and generally Good People, both to work w…

>I will note that although I have never met an asshole who was a top performer, I have met many who were convinced that they were. Definitely this. I find that insecurity also correlates strongly with the above description.

So what do you label someone who does most of the work while other contribute little to nothing? How to they profess that and not be labeled an asshole?

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#18

Post by caminante » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

>Notably, those employees who reported being victims of rudeness were largely perceived by their managers as perpetrators of rude behavior.

The article and research abstract [0] doesn't appear to address the most interesting point. I want to know why the victim blaming persists.

[0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/30640491

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#19

Post by mharroun » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:25 PM UTC

factotvm wrote: post #14

mharroun wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why wasn't he terminated if he had sub par performance and was also someone who causes friction? Did no one speak up about the issue... or is that "rude" behavior? To me is sound that 1 of 3 things are happening: - Management sucks and cannot objectively see who is successful as doing what. - The person is not subpar and that is your own personal feelings - Most of the company's full of "nice guys/girls" and the b…

> Slightly above average with a complex... I don't think this person would get fired anywhere I've worked. It's difficult and expensive to fire someone. You open yourself up to possible legal action even if you put them on a performance improvement plan. The best is to try and manage them out, but if the work you need to get done outstrips the people able to do it, you'll keep that above average person who thinks mor…

You case dose not match the parents claim, but i get that your situation seems tricky. I will also say this sounds like a management failure if 1 person is so critical they can get away with being disruptive to others. The leader of that person should focus on getting anyone else up to speed and co-ownership of the knowledge that makes the disruptive person so valuable.

Re: A new study of rudeness in the workplace

#20

Post by cateye » Sun, Jul 28, 2019, 9:50 PM UTC

It doesn't make a lot of sense to discuss things that are totally subjective and can't be defined with a certain specifity.

- What is the definition of rudeness?

- How can rudeness be quantified and measured?

- What did the interviewee perceive as rudeness?

- Is the shown behavior correctly observed and classified as rudeness?