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In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

nytimes.com

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Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#71

Post by boon »

pas wrote: post #67
thiagotomei wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disclaimer: I am Brazilian and a raving anti-Bolsonaro protester. If we follow that line of thought, we will always end up at the following conundrum: the planet cannot support the "affluent Western" lifestyle -- think typical Bay Area HN-er -- for all 7 billion humans (as far as I remember, I don't have the sources for that). Who is going to draw the golden ticket? I agree that Bolsonaro is an opportunist (like many…

The planet most definitely can. We can borrow against our future cash flows, there is plenty of underutilized capacity that could be used to transform the world to carbon neutrality. But so far we have not made this choice, because our power structure is too short sighted. Why? Well, naturally there are true ignorants, some selfish folks manipulating the former group, and so we have ugly inefficient compromises.

Can you explain more in terms of the planet side of things? I get that you think the wealth can be generated, but I think the comment you are responding to is referring to how can the planet support that level of consumption?

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#72

Post by nfrbc »

zaro wrote: post #25

It's a pity things are going in that direction. But i don't think we are in position to judge the Brazilians over this. I watched a short documentary about this issue recently on Youtube, and the journalists went to some really remote area and spoke with the mayor of town there. The guy was big supporter of Bolsonaro and he said something that is actually very true. He said US and Europe have no right to tell Brazil…

But we do have our "toilet paper made from virgin pulp". In fact, I'd wager that it's better than other countries I lived in. ;)

Brazil already have a rich and sustainable wood industry for decades. Extraction mostly in the southeast, in states like Espirito Santo, south of Bahia, Parana. Mostly eucalyptus and pinus. It is a 70-billion industry that is still growing, and is sustainable.

The extraction from Amazon happens on old trees in a non-sustainable way. Mostly trees affected by CITES, and probably exported illegally from Brazil.

This is not something that will change or economy in a scalable way. This will not generate jobs, and will be a compromise, because those trees take decades to grow.

There are laws in place and all we have to do is follow them, and the industry will keep up.

We just have a president that desperately wants to lax all regulations to appeal to his base, and that includes even stuff like traffic regulation.

So, yes, you are in a position to judge Brazil and Brazilians over this. We are not some small country full of poor people, but apparently we're in a fast track to become one. :(

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#73

Post by toomuchtodo »

pluc wrote: post #8
ablation wrote: post #2

We seem determined to undermine all attempts to save ourselves. It makes me very depressed sometimes, when striving to be better as an individual, to see things like this happening. I truly do worry we don’t have a lot of time left.

Just switch your allegiance to the Planet instead of the Race.

Puts you at odds with humanity unfortunately.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#74

Post by Bayart »

Keyframe wrote: post #69
nfrbc wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't happen because Bolsonaro is too cozy with the US government, both have the same anti-leftist "own them libs" political leaning. Who's going to do it? Europe? Asia?

It's an amusing thought experiment. China? They seem to be focusing on the topic of environment.

China's burning more coal by the day.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#75

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

refurb wrote: post #65
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Why? :crickets:

Same mentality that got us into Iraq. If we had just respected their sovereignty, we never would have gone there.

IMO, we went there precisely to show that we don't respect anyone elses sovereignity, specifically not theirs.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#76

Post by ulisesrmzroche »

bogwog wrote: post #57
ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it? Why? :crickets:

Imagine that same exact mindset from the point of view of Bolsonaro and his supporters. That land is ours! If we burn it all down, there won't be anything left for them to "protect", and we'll be able to build whatever we want on it

That's not interventionist tho. The same point of view framed as an intervention would be to come to America and burn our forests down.

But that's not an intervention, rite? That would be an act of war. An intervention is supposed to be for the greater good of the collective, as in win-win.

This is just more left vs right stuff. This is why Jesus invented day drinking.

In a sane world, the CIA would have already faked some bullshit, and taken the guy out, let us all get on with paying our taxes in peace.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#77

Post by dang »

lipe66 wrote: post #70

There are no protections being slashed. this is totaly and complete BS. France is attacking Brasil because of the impact in a comer ial agreement. Why you don't go take care of your lives instead of gossiping in the web?

If an article is wrong and you have correct information, you're welcome to provide it, but please don't do it by calling names. Do it by neutrally stating facts. This will do a much better job of refuting the wrong article. Taking the threads further into flamewar helps nothing, and damages this place.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#78

Post by andrenth »

gambiting wrote: post #26
andrenth wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why doesn’t Norway stop making use of all that fossil fuel they sit on?

Because that's literally how they fund their entire society? Even with the super high taxes, it's not enough to cover the level of social spending they are trying to maintain. Not to mention that it's also going into a fund for all pensions. In that way, it's great that the government kept control over the fossil fuels and that the money from them at least serves the Norwegian people.

Right, so practical reasons and sovereignty trump environmental consequences. This standard should be applied for all countries.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#79

Post by ed_dantes99 »

What if rich countries stop buying things that cause deforestation such as meat and wood? (now you throw me through the window).

When I read that foreigners (specially Europeans) are concerned about Amazon I simply laugh. They've been exploiting Brazilian's (and other colonies as well) natural resources since ever! They've got rich as hell by just doing that!! But now they are superior and know exactly what the world needs. Same old story.

Re: In Brazil, Amazon Protections Are Slashed and Forests Fall

#80

Post by hanniabu »

devoply wrote: post #48
hanniabu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice in theory, but unless there's surveillance it won't help. They'll ravage the land anyways if there's nobody there to protect it

Hello Amazon drones?

Not sure you're aware of how large and remote the Amazon is. Even if the drone battery life was sustainable, you'd still need to get physical enforcement to the location.
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