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Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

bloomberg.com

11–20 of 69 posts

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#11
14.000 suicides in 74.000.000 people (about 19 per 100.000). Too much, but not way more than to expect, there are western countries with higher suicide rates.

I'm sure there are too many suicides because of micro-loan depts, but I doubt that this part is significant with regard to all the other issues we need to solve.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#12
My dad used to work for an NGO that ran schools in northern Karnataka. He told me unscrupulous microfinance lenders used to badger rural women into taking loans at ridiculous interest rates and then harass them when they couldn't pay up.

The only real solution to this problem is empowering and educating women to be financially responsible and making sure that they have the social courage to refuse these loans. Unfortunately, this will take a few decades to happen and more than a few lives will be lost unnecessarily until them.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#13
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

If SKS microfinance is charging 24% they are a loanshark, period.Rates as high as that are usury and should not be lawful.

I'm of half-Indian and half-European descent and I am always ashamed of my Indian heritage. The Indian people as a collective simply do not know what it means to be humane and have never heard the word solidarity. I don't mean that Western countries are perfect, just that they are lightyears ahead of India.

Civilized countries have laws that protect the poor. Interest rate limits for people (not corporations) are generally and histroically limited to about 8-12%. The US exception caused the subprime crisis, but was compensated for the poor by generous bankruptcy laws.

Also, western countries have bankruptcy laws, social safety nets and a lot of private charity.

Even poort western countries such as Bolivia have a minimal level of solidarity so that no-one should feel that suicide is the only way out.

India, I am disappoint.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#14
post #3

India’s booming microlending industry is part of a global phenomenon that began as a charitable movement but now attracts private capital seeking growth and high returns. Good old capitalism, always there to turn nice things into shit.

Good old capitalism, always there to turn nice things into shit.

And what about all the "nice things" we probably wouldn't have without capitalism? How many drugs and labor-saving devices are in widespread use today because somebody saw a chance to make a profit by producing them?

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#15
post #11

14.000 suicides in 74.000.000 people (about 19 per 100.000). Too much, but not way more than to expect, there are western countries with higher suicide rates. I'm sure there are too many suicides because of micro-loan depts, but I doubt that this part is significant with regard to all the other issues we need to solve.

Suicides amongst micro-finance customers would be a more appropriate statistic. There are clearly more widespread problems that need to be addressed, but seeing as this behaviour is a consequence of for-profit companies applying First-world credit policies to Third-world customers, i.e., those with no other way to change their financial situation, I consider it irresponsible behaviour on the part of companies who should've known better.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#16
post #13
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

If SKS microfinance is charging 24% they are a loanshark, period.Rates as high as that are usury and should not be lawful. I'm of half-Indian and half-European descent and I am always ashamed of my Indian heritage. The Indian people as a collective simply do not know what it means to be humane and have never heard the word solidarity. I don't mean that Western countries are perfect, just that they are lightyears ahea…

Of course any developing entrepreneurs will have higher interest rates - they are greater credit risks, and the costs of making the loan are similar for small loans an large loans. To properly compare, you have to compare the the 24% rate to the previous lenders, who, if I remember correctly charged rates from 100-300% and up.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#17
This article illustrates the tension between the original philanthropic intent of micro-finance and the reality that high risk lending requires high interest rates to be profitable. I worry that the micro-finance brand will become usury with a fresh coat of paint.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#18
post #3

India’s booming microlending industry is part of a global phenomenon that began as a charitable movement but now attracts private capital seeking growth and high returns. Good old capitalism, always there to turn nice things into shit.

>Good old capitalism, always there to turn nice things into shit.

The best thing about this meme is that it WILL turn everything nice into shit if people believe it.

Capitalism and free enterprise produced everything good. The issue with suicides is not related to capitalism, it's related to cultural norms and lack of bankruptcy laws.

Your communist spin on this turns my stomach. If you really care about the poor you will recognize that free enterprise is their only true hope for attaining a better life. Lenin is not going to do it. Charity is not the solution. The solution is productive free market wealth producing labor.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#19
post #13
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

If SKS microfinance is charging 24% they are a loanshark, period.Rates as high as that are usury and should not be lawful. I'm of half-Indian and half-European descent and I am always ashamed of my Indian heritage. The Indian people as a collective simply do not know what it means to be humane and have never heard the word solidarity. I don't mean that Western countries are perfect, just that they are lightyears ahea…

There's no 'general and historical' interest rate limit of 8-12%. Credit card APRs in the United States range up to 30% or so, and payday loans can have APRs of well over 100%. In other countries, rates for products catering to the poor are similarly high - this is just the cost of doing business when extending small amounts of credit to poor prospects with high default rates.

The wisdom of that is what should be debated. Since businesses need to charge high interest rates to compensate for defaults, does mean the poor shouldn't have access to credit at all? Note that that's what effectively happening in Andhra Pradesh, where laws to 'protect the poor' have dropped the repayment rate of loans to under 20 percent, ensuring microcredit there will cease to exist.

Re: Suicides in India show the dark side of micro-finance

#20
post #13
post #9

[I was involved in a project for SKS Microfinance in a previous job, and I've gotten up-close and personal with their numbers for a few months, all pre-IPO] A majority of the small-ticket loans are given out under the umbrella called IGLs (Income Generating Loans), which is basically capital for asset development and/or small-time business building. (e.g. the spice shop woman in the article) These are the loans given…

If SKS microfinance is charging 24% they are a loanshark, period.Rates as high as that are usury and should not be lawful. I'm of half-Indian and half-European descent and I am always ashamed of my Indian heritage. The Indian people as a collective simply do not know what it means to be humane and have never heard the word solidarity. I don't mean that Western countries are perfect, just that they are lightyears ahea…

I agree with your bit about solidarity in India, but you might be a bit mis-informed about the interest rates.

The CoF (cost of funds) to SKS is in the vicinity of 12-14%, and the norm is to add 10% on top of that. More middle-of-the-curve MFIs usually charge 30%+.

Loan sharks in villages typically charge 100% and/or servitude, and are more often than not the cause of loan repayment related suicides.

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