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BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

sfchronicle.com

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Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#71

Post by jacques_chester »

umeshunni wrote: post #70
throwaway_17426 wrote: post #45

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains? It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming. For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious. Also, this is another step toward pervasive…

Given that the San Francisco now has the highest crime rate in the country thanks to lax enforcement, this is a step in the right direction.. https://www.economist.com/united-states/2019/02/16/property-...

Cameras don't deter crime as effectively as uniformed patrols. And uniformed patrols aren't eventually going to drain into a massive pool of recordings that can be mined for your every movement.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#72

Post by luckydata »

chrischen wrote: post #55
throwaway_17426 wrote: post #45

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains? It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming. For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious. Also, this is another step toward pervasive…

1) Unless you're going from end-to-end, you're unlikely to do a 60 minute commute on a BART 2) It turned out a lot of BART cameras were fake. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Repl... 3) If they got rid of cameras you'd still not be able to use your computer during your commute because you'd almost certainly be robbed within the year if you were to use it every day on the BART for a year. In fac…

That's complete hogwash. It is very common to commute 60 minutes, for example looks like half the workforce at Salesforce lives in Fremont. In the morning the train fills up right at warm springs and gets empty at embarcadero. This legend that Bart is mostly for short rides is just that, a legend. Most people using Bart have pretty long commute from Concord, Dublin and Fremont into the city.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#73

Post by luckydata »

yardie wrote: post #17
trebligdivad wrote: post #5

Manchester's Metrolink uses Bombardier M5000's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_M5000 ) that seem to have worked OK. But I do wonder - is there anyone other than Bombardier who makes tram/underground vehicles these days?

> is there anyone other than Bombardier who makes tram/underground vehicles these days? Siemens, Alstom, and Mitsubishi off the top of my head. There probably is some Chinese companies but I’m not familiar with them.

Ansaldo Breda in Italy.

Edit: turns out this business was sold to Hitachi. I didn't know that.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#74

Post by [deleted] »

pmoriarty wrote: post #13

About 20 to 25 years ago, I took a trip from the US (where I'd lived most of my life) to travel around Europe by train, and I was immensely impressed by its far superior train system. The best trains of all the countries I visited were in Sweden, which had trains which were so modern that they seemed like something out of the future, even compared to the best trains I'd seen in the US by that time, Amtrak trains. The…

[deleted]

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#75

Post by vonmoltke »

tialaramex wrote: post #64
throwawaycert wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still a serious linguistic disconnect here. You’re talking about what are essentially suburbs. Big cities are mostly apartments and condos. This is true throughout the developed world including in the US, but for some reason in the US we ended up calling every group of houses and a general store “city”.

Yeah. In the UK a city needs central government paperwork (notionally through the Queen). They hold competitions to pick new ones. If a million people go live somewhere that's a really big town, but it only becomes a city when the Queen says so. Being a city makes no direct practical difference to anything, it's like being elected homecoming king. In the US city status makes an important practical difference to how a…

> n the US city status makes an important practical difference to how an area is run and what the people running it can do independently of the State they're in.

The status of various municipal designations varies greatly based on state laws. Generally, government levels go state->county->municipality. The type and form of a municipality generally only affects how it is organized, not its level of independence from higher levels of government. Some states restrict types and forms based on size, though.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#76

Post by pizza234 »

qaq wrote: post #26
moreira wrote: post #18

I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. The US is really far behind other developed countries in a lot of ways but few people in the US notice because most Americans rarely ever look outside their culture bubble or see another country. There are big-ass tech companies, of course, but the…

I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There are cultural differences that influence things like that too. As priorities shift things can change. So in US you have people living in large houses driving large cars and on average having crappy public transport infra. In Europe you have people living in much more modest size houses mostly driving tiny cars and often having good public transport infra. For me Europea…

I find it scandalous the perception that anything that is not a SUV is tiny.

One of the most sold cars in Europe is the Volkswagen Golf; I don't see how that is tiny.

Interestingly, I see that mid and large size classes (mid-size being a "large family car") originated in USA, which makes me wonder if that's a typical American perception.

I'd even argue that 1400+ kg for moving around an average of 1.5 person/120 kg (I think an average of 2 people is too generous), during a time of ecological crisis, is tragic, and in my opinion, describes perfectly how there's no hope.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#77

Post by crimsonalucard »

moreira wrote: post #18

I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. The US is really far behind other developed countries in a lot of ways but few people in the US notice because most Americans rarely ever look outside their culture bubble or see another country. There are big-ass tech companies, of course, but the…

It's not propaganda. The US went to the moon, this is something sweden can never pull off. What's going on in the US is not a technology problem. It's a problem with politics and business. There is no business or political interest in building up public transportation in this country.

For historical reasons, the U.S. legal system offers citizens an unparalleled number of veto points at which they can attempt to block government projects. Any infrastructure project bigger than painting a schoolhouse thus has to either fight out the reviews and court cases for years, or buy off the opponents, or more likely, both.

The lack of infrastructure definitely affects perception and quality of life. Make no mistake though, currently the united states is one of the technology leaders of the world. Key word: currently.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#78

Post by vonmoltke »

spenrose wrote: post #52

Most of BART’s challenges stem from 180 software packages and 30 microprocessors that make up each Bombardier vehicle. Each is a complex symphony of systems that communicate over an Ethernet backbone. A bug in one line of code could shut the whole thing down, requiring a rigorous safety review process that may take months before engineers can reinstall the software."

That may explain why New Jersey Transit's Bombardier cars are so temperamental.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#79

Post by fnord77 »

spenrose wrote: post #52

Most of BART’s challenges stem from 180 software packages and 30 microprocessors that make up each Bombardier vehicle. Each is a complex symphony of systems that communicate over an Ethernet backbone. A bug in one line of code could shut the whole thing down, requiring a rigorous safety review process that may take months before engineers can reinstall the software."

let me guess... $11/hour software engineers

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#80

Post by [deleted] »

qaq wrote: post #26
moreira wrote: post #18

I think there’s a general feeling (propaganda?) that the US is a technological leader, but... there’s nothing to support that, especially when it comes to infrastructure. The US is really far behind other developed countries in a lot of ways but few people in the US notice because most Americans rarely ever look outside their culture bubble or see another country. There are big-ass tech companies, of course, but the…

I think you are oversimplifying the issue. There are cultural differences that influence things like that too. As priorities shift things can change. So in US you have people living in large houses driving large cars and on average having crappy public transport infra. In Europe you have people living in much more modest size houses mostly driving tiny cars and often having good public transport infra. For me Europea…

[deleted]
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