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BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

sfchronicle.com

51–60 of 109 posts

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#51

Manchester's Metrolink uses Bombardier M5000's ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_M5000 ) that seem to have worked OK. But I do wonder - is there anyone other than Bombardier who makes tram/underground vehicles these days?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_Heavy_Industries_Roll... Making for NYC Subway. Hope it improves reliability

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#52
Most of BART’s challenges stem from 180 software packages and 30 microprocessors that make up each Bombardier vehicle. Each is a complex symphony of systems that communicate over an Ethernet backbone. A bug in one line of code could shut the whole thing down, requiring a rigorous safety review process that may take months before engineers can reinstall the software."

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#53
post #4

The Swiss national train company has their own share of issues with trains built by Bombardier. After years of delays, what was finally delivered is horribly unreliable and passengers also don't like the shaking feeling when they do run. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB_RABe_502 Two examples doesn't make a trend, but seeing how similar the issues are, maybe there is some systemic issue plaguing them.

NYC has also had problems with Bombadier and banned them from bidding on new contracts. Ongoing deliveries from them have been frozen until their problems are fixed (bad welds being the most dangerous but reliability overall being terrible).

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#54
post #19

> BART gets to withhold the last 5 percent payment for the $2.5 billion fleet until both sets of cars hit their maintenance targets Is it just me or does 5% not seem like nearly a large enough percent? If I only had to hit 20% of my expected performance in exchange for 95% of my pay... I would have a lot more hobbies.

Most of these large capital contracts leave very little money for profit upfront. That comes from long term maintenance. If they are the lowest bidder they are probably losing money even at 95% payout.

While true, once you reach a certain point, that's all water under the bridge, and the only question that remains is how motivating it is to pursue that last 5%.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#55

Is anyone else concerned about the surveillance in the new BART trains? It looks like there are 7-9 small CCTV cameras in each car. This means that there is nowhere inside the vehicle where you have private space to enter a password, or check your work email, or pull out a laptop to do some programming. For people who spend 60 minutes (or more) commuting, this is obnoxious. Also, this is another step toward pervasive…

1) Unless you're going from end-to-end, you're unlikely to do a 60 minute commute on a BART

2) It turned out a lot of BART cameras were fake. https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Repl...

3) If they got rid of cameras you'd still not be able to use your computer during your commute because you'd almost certainly be robbed within the year if you were to use it every day on the BART for a year. In fact, even with cameras this will be true.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#56
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are wrong here, what you said is mostly about how it is in big cities versus the rural areas, same thing is in Europe. You will not find a lot of mass transit in European countryside, sure there are buses and trains probably more abundant than in USA but be prepared to walk a few kilometers to the nearest station. Your point would make sense if USA had high-speed trains linking big cities but it doesn't,…

Where did I say that it's about rural areas vs big cities ? In most US metro areas majority of people of people live in houses. In US people either drive or fly. There is good infra for long range driving. This has nothing to do with large cities vs rural areas for the most part.

There is still a serious linguistic disconnect here. You’re talking about what are essentially suburbs. Big cities are mostly apartments and condos. This is true throughout the developed world including in the US, but for some reason in the US we ended up calling every group of houses and a general store “city”.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where did I say that it's about rural areas vs big cities ? In most US metro areas majority of people of people live in houses. In US people either drive or fly. There is good infra for long range driving. This has nothing to do with large cities vs rural areas for the most part.

There is still a serious linguistic disconnect here. You’re talking about what are essentially suburbs. Big cities are mostly apartments and condos. This is true throughout the developed world including in the US, but for some reason in the US we ended up calling every group of houses and a general store “city”.

I mean, if you want to split hairs, then yes most Americans live in the suburbs of metropolitan areas, which is because of and also the reason for shitty American infra. If you are looking for Berlin+ levels of density that would be the 7th percentile of American zip codes.

The person you are responding to never even used the word cities.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#59

> “I don’t know everything these new trains can do — they probably have artificial intelligence or something — but I know they’re better than these buckets of steel we’re sitting in,” said Board President Bevan Dufty. Maybe this guy shouldn’t be president of the BART board? I mean, lots of other people quoted in the article seem to know what they do.

The role of a President is NOT to set strategy or even understand it. That’s a CEO.

The role of President is to gladhand and otherwise maintain relationships necessary for the partners to feel safe continuing their contracts.

That kind of “aw, shucks” mentality is very useful for this.

Re: BART slows rollout of new trains as it contends with more repairs than expected

#60

About 20 to 25 years ago, I took a trip from the US (where I'd lived most of my life) to travel around Europe by train, and I was immensely impressed by its far superior train system. The best trains of all the countries I visited were in Sweden, which had trains which were so modern that they seemed like something out of the future, even compared to the best trains I'd seen in the US by that time, Amtrak trains. The…

> Now finally these new BART trains rolling out, some NYC trains were also modernizing some about a decade ago, but I haven't been to Sweden or much of the rest of Europe in a long time, and I wonder how much further they've progressed.

Unfortunately very little in Sweden. Really the only thing of note close to Sweden would probably be the subway in Copenhagen. Maybe Spain would be impressive, but most of it is happening in Asia these days.

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