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I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

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Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#41

Post by billswift »

podperson wrote: post #23
kjksf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people bring Android fragmentation as a negative is because they claim it's hard for developers to support all different Android devices. This post shows that iPhone has the same problem: every iOS version is a fragmentation point. If you want to support version X1, X2, X3, X4 etc. of iOS you have to make sure it works on all those versions, just like if you want to support version X1, X2, X3, X4 etc. of A…

No, the problem here isn't supporting _devices_ but OSes. If you flag your app as v4 (correctly) anyone who wants to use it can upgrade to v4 and use it. No fragmentation. Under Android it's a dog's breakfast just on that point, forget screen resolutions etc.

Do you actually have any specifics about Android fragmentation causing a problem? If you do, ESR has been trying to find any specifics to back up the generic claims of fragmentation, and has said he has not found any reasonable evidence of such problems. Same question for all you apparent Apple fanboys who voted this comment up so much, any specifics? If you have any here's the thread where ESR's been requesting them - http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=2835.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#42

Post by T-R »

podperson wrote: post #23
kjksf wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason people bring Android fragmentation as a negative is because they claim it's hard for developers to support all different Android devices. This post shows that iPhone has the same problem: every iOS version is a fragmentation point. If you want to support version X1, X2, X3, X4 etc. of iOS you have to make sure it works on all those versions, just like if you want to support version X1, X2, X3, X4 etc. of A…

No, the problem here isn't supporting _devices_ but OSes. If you flag your app as v4 (correctly) anyone who wants to use it can upgrade to v4 and use it. No fragmentation. Under Android it's a dog's breakfast just on that point, forget screen resolutions etc.

Avoid fragmentation by just dropping support for older versions of the OS?

Keep in mind, Apple occasionally charges for iOS upgrades, so requiring an upgrade effectively increases the cost of your application by a nontrivial amount. Not all users want to upgrade, especially when upgrades degrade performance and have limited new features for older devices.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#43

Post by 5teev »

natch wrote: post #16
dazzla wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's right you can select all those versions accept 3.1.3 and that is the problem.

Why is that the problem? Just install Xcode 3.2.2, which does include support for the Simulator 3.1.3. You can get it from http://connect.apple.com/ - select Developer Tools, find 3.2.2. in the page, download it, and install it to a directory other than the default /Developer, so your existing tools won't be affected. You might want to skip the installation of the developer utilities, since the ones from the current…

And Apple extensively emphasizes this point: there is no substitute for testing on an actual device with your target OS installed.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#44

Post by Aqua_Geek »

T-R wrote: post #42
podperson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem here isn't supporting _devices_ but OSes. If you flag your app as v4 (correctly) anyone who wants to use it can upgrade to v4 and use it. No fragmentation. Under Android it's a dog's breakfast just on that point, forget screen resolutions etc.

Avoid fragmentation by just dropping support for older versions of the OS? Keep in mind, Apple occasionally charges for iOS upgrades, so requiring an upgrade effectively increases the cost of your application by a nontrivial amount. Not all users want to upgrade, especially when upgrades degrade performance and have limited new features for older devices.

"Keep in mind, Apple used to charge for iOS upgrades, so requiring an upgrade effectively increases the cost of your application by a nontrivial amount." [FTFY]

Apple attributed the fee to strange accounting rules (something dealing with when revenue is recognized - I don't exactly recall off hand) - rules which were recently changed. Just an excuse to milk some more cash out of iPod touch users? Maybe - I won't argue with you on that. But as of iOS 4.0, Apple no longer charges iPod touch users for updates.

"Not all users want to upgrade, especially when upgrades degrade performance and have limited new features for older devices."

Here is the real roadblock to updating. 4.0 has rendered my 3G frustratingly unusable. In my mind, those who haven't updated fall into three camps:

1. Those who jailbroke and haven't gone through the hassle of updating

2. Those who could care less about new features/aren't aware there is an update

3. As you mentioned, those who have older devices and don't want to update because of performance or development reasons

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#45

Post by runjake »

billswift wrote: post #41
podperson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem here isn't supporting _devices_ but OSes. If you flag your app as v4 (correctly) anyone who wants to use it can upgrade to v4 and use it. No fragmentation. Under Android it's a dog's breakfast just on that point, forget screen resolutions etc.

Do you actually have any specifics about Android fragmentation causing a problem? If you do, ESR has been trying to find any specifics to back up the generic claims of fragmentation, and has said he has not found any reasonable evidence of such problems. Same question for all you apparent Apple fanboys who voted this comment up so much, any specifics? If you have any here's the thread where ESR's been requesting them…

I program for both platforms. A couple things that annoy me the most often, aside from devices shipping with old versions of Android:

- Resolution differences, and no real scalable interface APIs. - HTC vs Blur vs Samsung's distribution of Android. They all dick with stuff their own way. - Physical buttons on each device. Some are overly sensitive capacitive buttons, clicky buttons, or high latency. Each require model specific code.

You can verify this by searching the release notes for apps in the Market. There's commonly caveats for certain models.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#46

Post by runjake »

billswift wrote: post #41
podperson wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the problem here isn't supporting _devices_ but OSes. If you flag your app as v4 (correctly) anyone who wants to use it can upgrade to v4 and use it. No fragmentation. Under Android it's a dog's breakfast just on that point, forget screen resolutions etc.

Do you actually have any specifics about Android fragmentation causing a problem? If you do, ESR has been trying to find any specifics to back up the generic claims of fragmentation, and has said he has not found any reasonable evidence of such problems. Same question for all you apparent Apple fanboys who voted this comment up so much, any specifics? If you have any here's the thread where ESR's been requesting them…

Btw what does ESR have to do with Android? I don't see how reporting it to some random Linux enthusiast is going to help.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#47

Post by xuki »

pyre wrote: post #39
xuki wrote: post #14

Instead of testing on 5+ devices for Android, you just have to buy an old iPod touch with 3.1.3 on it. Is it too costly for you?

You're right. It would be so much easier if Netscape had just stayed dead, and IE was the only web browser that I had to develop for. Also: * It would be so much easier choosing an ISP if AOL was the only ISP in America. * It would be so much easier being a mechanic if the only automobiles were Fords, and they only made 2 models. * It would be so much easier developing video games if people weren't allow to configure…

Please read, I never whine about Android fragmentation. I'm saying iOS (at least to me) is not as fragmented as Android, so the title is misleading.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#48

Post by rimantas »

Aqua_Geek wrote: post #44
T-R wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Avoid fragmentation by just dropping support for older versions of the OS? Keep in mind, Apple occasionally charges for iOS upgrades, so requiring an upgrade effectively increases the cost of your application by a nontrivial amount. Not all users want to upgrade, especially when upgrades degrade performance and have limited new features for older devices.

"Keep in mind, Apple used to charge for iOS upgrades, so requiring an upgrade effectively increases the cost of your application by a nontrivial amount." [FTFY] Apple attributed the fee to strange accounting rules (something dealing with when revenue is recognized - I don't exactly recall off hand) - rules which were recently changed. Just an excuse to milk some more cash out of iPod touch users? Maybe - I won't argu…

There is no real roadblock. Just try 4.2, it's not slow.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#49

Post by xuki »

blinkingled wrote: post #36
xuki wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you need to test on real devices for real performance and experience. I only have to test my app on my iPhone 4 and 2nd gen iPod touch. Same thing applies to beta testing on iOS, but since Apple don't allow beta app, developers have to issue adhoc build.

Don't you have to test on an iPad? For that matter - testing on couple real Android devices is equally effective - Galaxy Tab and Optimus S or G1/ADP and Nexus One. My point was that you don't need to test on ALL different Android devices - just a few which seems to be similar with iOS from what you said. If you want to test lots of real devices - it's actually easy with Android - push the beta in the Market and let…

If my app is not designed for the iPad, no.

If it is, I don't have to test on the previous 2 devices.

Re: I've had more fragmentation problems with iOS/iPhone than with Android

#50

Post by Aqua_Geek »

rimantas wrote: post #48
Aqua_Geek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Keep in mind, Apple used to charge for iOS upgrades, so requiring an upgrade effectively increases the cost of your application by a nontrivial amount." [FTFY] Apple attributed the fee to strange accounting rules (something dealing with when revenue is recognized - I don't exactly recall off hand) - rules which were recently changed. Just an excuse to milk some more cash out of iPod touch users? Maybe - I won't argu…

There is no real roadblock. Just try 4.2, it's not slow.

Thanks for the tip. I was still on 4.1, so I updated yesterday. It's better, but a number of apps are still a far cry from usable.
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