> Shopping can be quite boring because it’s such a routine, and this is a way to make the routine more interesting. Maybe there is an opportunity here to somehow make shopping or self-checkout more thrilling and thus reduce shoplifting. Maybe add some features from a slot machine and give random discount or free items. Gamify the checkout experience so people want to buy more.
The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
181–190 of 231 posts
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#182The machine learning solution: * LaneHawk - identifies items in bottom of car [1] * Everseen - watches object move through a checkout [2] and reports if they are not scanned. In use at Walmart and "5 of the 10 top retailers" now. * StopLift - also watches checkouts. Recently purchased by NCR. This problem is on its way to being solved. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYd7CcInZ28 [2] https://www.theverge.com/2019/…
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes. The article mentions various “fraud detection” schemes in place (weight etc) but I don’t get why random checks aren’t just used instead, or in addition?
In England you can't search people just because you want to.
Note: in most places such as grocery stores, customers scan items while picking them using a handheld scanner while putting things in their cart. Then you just pay for the total at the checkout, at which point the register could randomly decide to give you an audit. If you don’t agree to ever being subjected to that, your only choice is to use traditional checkout.
In other places (perhaps most notably IKEA) items are self-scanned at checkout time.
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#184The machine learning solution: * LaneHawk - identifies items in bottom of car [1] * Everseen - watches object move through a checkout [2] and reports if they are not scanned. In use at Walmart and "5 of the 10 top retailers" now. * StopLift - also watches checkouts. Recently purchased by NCR. This problem is on its way to being solved. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYd7CcInZ28 [2] https://www.theverge.com/2019/…
False positives and the human reaction to being accused of theft will kill these. Honestly a sticker that says "automated theft detection system in operation" will be more effective
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nowhere did I say the conduct of the big tech companies is anything resembling perfect, nor that the regulation of them is perfect. The point was that none of this justifies property theft from other big companies, and that we all learned this as children. But sure, petty theft can be a powerful form of protest I guess, so if that's important to you, knock yourself out.
The claim was big corporations get to rip off and exploit little people virtually at will, and your refutation was that they are punished (or at least get slapped in the wrist as evidenced), everything is at balance in the moral realm, and a hostile personal orientation against them is unwarranted. You've now updated your argument to Big Tech may be evil but that doesn't mean we should assume Big Grocery is too. That…
For what it's worth, I don't think "big tech" or "big grocery" is "evil" or "not evil" in any binary sense. People and organisations respond to incentives and societal standards. Sometimes those incentives and standards are healthy and lead to broadly beneficial outcomes and sometimes they are perverse and lead to negative outcomes. Countless economists over several centuries have explored these topics far more deeply than I can in an HN comment late on a Sunday evening.
For some people it's really important to think that the big tech companies are evil and to blame for all society's ills, and now people are claiming that means it's really important to go easy on people who shoplift. OK then, they're welcome to that view.
I still think society is better if people - both individuals and corporates of all sizes - act ethically and morally and don't steal or defraud, and I don't think individuals can expect politicians and corporations to act ethically if we're not willing to act ethically in our personal lives.
That said, I'm not a law-and-order hardliner, and I have actually shoplifted in my life, at a young age, though not for any reasons to do with waging any just war against supposedly evil corporations. I was just in a bad place in life. So I have plenty of compassion for people who end up doing wrong due to being in bad circumstances.
Anyway, like I said, it's late on a pleasant Sunday evening and life is too short to spend any more time talking about this, so I'm out.
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#186>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extrem…
You don't know what to say because saying shoplifting is moral (under some conditions) goes against the central belief you were raised with all your life: private property.
But following an ethics based on social equality, you realize that in many situations self-discouting (autoréduction) is the just thing to do.
We live in a world of money and private property. These ever-invasive tools of injustice are actually based on institutionalized theft. The land you work you don't "own". The house you live in you don't "own". The programs/websites you build you don't "own". So usage-based property (the oldest and only "natural" form of property) is out of the equation because society's belief in a piece of paper (a property title) dispossessed you from what you need/use.
So in this equation, we realize what we need (that has no price) was taken away from us by private property. When we take a look at the production/supply chain, we can follow the money to see who benefits from this worldwide scam. Take food: food costs little-to-nothing to grow (unless you do it with chemicals, which you should never), so it's a good sample of how a capitalist system behaves.
Food you find in supermarkets is grown by farmers. Their production is bought by logistics giants who will take it to supermarkets, or to logistics hubs run by supermarket chains. For supermarket chains (not small shops), it is rare to have more intermediates than this.
Yet, even with so few middlepersons, retail prices can be 5 times or even 10 times what the farmer was paid for the product. Here in France, we typically pay 2-6€/kg of vegetables in supermarkets (farmers markets are cheaper), while the farm gets paid typically less than a euro (with some exceptions for luxury produce).
So where does the money go? The middlepersons are an obvious answer. But supermarket owners are also responsible for the high prices of food.
So in the end, supermarkets are just the place where common people come to spend all their money to survive, while the person making the food can't pay their bills and is pushed slowly towards suicide (very common among farmers working for the industry). Can we call this "moral"? To me it sounds a lot like any other definition of slavery: working a lot to just earn your right to live and help other people be exploited.
Coming from this economic analysis, i believe anything you need you should steal from the rich and the powerful. We need to dismantle these people and their systems of oppression before they complete the destruction of our planet (they will never stop until then).
That's not to say that stealing is a moral way of life under every circumstance. But before i steal something, i ask myself these two questions:
- Is it a necessity or a nicety? (niceties-stealing is just another form of consumptionism) - Am i stealing from a rich person or from a poor/working person? (in a supermarket, you're stealing from rich shareholders; in a smallshop, you're stealing from your neighbor's work, who themselves get ripped off by surrounding capitalist structures)
I know many people among you will not understand or approve my way of thinking. I'm not here to try and convince you. But you should understand that commerce and private property are not inherent aspects of humanity and that stealing is most times a necessity. Therefore stealing from the rich does not come from a delusion, but from the realization that the rules of the game are rigged and we need direct action to bring justice to the table.
P.S. I spent so much time on this crap instead of dismissing it shallowly because dang gets sad when people don't show intellectual cuiriosity ;)
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#187“There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” The above sentiment is the basis of one of my favorite comedy bits by Bill Burr: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxINJzqzn4w
I had this big mess with my whole flight itinerary, and I was stuck at an airport for like 30 hours with nothing to do.
I got the airline's customer service on the phone. They were refusing to compensate me, I was livid but I just did exactly what Bill said: Don't curse and they can't hang up.
I talked really, really slowly. The intercoms in the airport would sound off periodically and I'd just wait until they stopped then ask the rep to repeat himself. So he'd repeat a point that he already made like 15 times. And I'd just keep feigning that I misunderstood the point he was trying to make.
I just kept talking in an infinite circle about common law, and the implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing, and running through all these increasingly ridiculous hypothetical scenarios of overbooking and flight delays and which party should be liable in those scenarios and for what reason, and on and on...
Bill is right about them not being allowed to hang up. I had him on the phone for over an hour.
He kept it together for a while, but toward the end I could tell that he was starting to crack. Then he made some unprompted comment about how he didn't care because he was getting paid to deal with me, and shortly after that, the line just abruptly cut off mid-sentence.
I got a callback the next morning offering me a $200 airline certificate, a hotel voucher, and a meal voucher.
True story.
At the time I was just really angry about my travel getting screwed up, and especially about not having a place to sleep, and being stuck in an airport terminal. And all that anger just channeled into this game of calmly wasting that guy's time.
But in hindsight, what I did was a very unjustified and shitty thing to do, and I was rewarded handsomely for it. And that guy may have been reprimanded through no fault of his own. I don't feel great about it and won't be doing it again.
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
My experience with people on drugs is that their ability to make a correct judgement in any situation diminishes drastically. For example, many of my friends would see cops everywhere after smoking weed (edit: secret cops, in civilian clothes. See how well they hide among us?). Another friend would always misplace her stuff, then start suspecting whoever was with her of stealing them (e.g. she would think I stole her…
Thanks for explaining what you meant. However I don't quite see how your examples relate to the kind of fallacious reasoning in the example (that it is OK to steal from self-checkout stores because they're making you do work). This (the example) is not just bad reasoning; it seems to stem from moral deficiency, and one can be morally deficient with or without being a drug addict. Also, the specific mental issues you…
I relayed my experiences with the people I basically grew up with- most of my friends when I was a teenager did drugs and by that I mean that they hardly did anything else. A few were honest-to-god junkies, who ended up in rehab and never really left, most of them (except the fortunately only one friend who died).
Is "disdain" derived from my statement that you don't take drugs to get smarter? My observation is that drugs make you you do stupid things and that most people who take them know this very well. Sometimes they seem to take the drugs to justify stupid behaviour that they wouldn't dare adopt otherwise.
The two examples are provided are general examples. I consider them examples of unreasonable thinking, and of how drugs make you do stupid things. I don't attribute the stupid behaviour of people on drugs to a moral deficiency (if that was the cause of the disdain interpretation)- I attribute it to the effect that drugs and the resulting intoxication have on their mental faculties.
As another exaple, I had a friend who started stealing our stuff when he took barbiturates. Once we were at my place and I showed everyone a silly trinket I had bought. After a while I noticed it had gone missing and I started looking for it. Seeing my frustration that I couldn't find it, my friend told me he had taken it and gave it back to me, _very_ embarassed at his own actions. I laughed, of course. Later another friend accused him of stealing some other trivial thing from his own house. My friend who stole those things (he was one of my inner circe, so to speak) was a pretty straight-up guy with very conservative values and he would have never deigned to stoop so low as to steal stuff from anywhere, in his sober moments. When he was under the influence, he basically turned kleptomanic.
I think this is a more relevant example to our discussion? If so, apologies for not bringing it up earlier.
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#189I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. Mainly because I support the idea of automation and want it to work well. Maybe it's just the reliability engineer in me that wants to call out the bugs and have them fixed. Or maybe it's the former security engineer in me who got paid to find the flaws in these systems and my ethics deman…
The self-checkout at Costco is a godsend. I usually buy 2-5 items at Costco, and the self-checkout allows me to avoid standing in line behind people with overflowing shopping carts. I can pay in about 30 seconds and get out of there.
Meanwhile, the staffed checkouts always seem to have another person assisting the cashier to get those overflowing carts through quickly.
Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)
#190it means that the only reason that these people don't steal, is that they think they won't cet away with it.