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The Problem of Mindfulness

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Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#101

Post by strictfp »

kranner wrote: post #69
strictfp wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same coping mechanism is being used in NLP. I have a feeling it's just a way of dealing with an environment which isn't healthy for the human being. It would be better to adjust the environment.

> It would be better to adjust the environment. Adjusting the environment is much more difficult and, in many cases, simply impossible. To paraphrase an old folk tale, what is easier: making the entire land-surface of the Earth easier to walk on, or just putting shoes on one's feet?

Sure, but fixing the bigger problems, such as stress in the workplace, would have many more benefits.

Ans as far as the analogy goes, it might be hard to fix the entire surface of the earth, but that's a strawman, because we have plenty of urbanised and indoor areas where you don't need shoes.

What's the easiest? To cover the entire earth in asphalt, or make all cars be 4wd?

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#103

Post by raincom »

sshekhar wrote: post #11

The word mindfulness itself is a poor translation of the Pali word 'Sati'. The Pali word actually means 'remembering to be aware of the objects that your mind is attending to'. There is no word in western languages to capture that phrase and hence word 'mindfulness' was used to convey in a confusing manner what 'Sati' means. I have been meditating for 1 hour to 1.5 hour every day for several years and I finally got i…

Whats the Sanskrit equivalent of 'Sati'?

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#104

Post by peterwwillis »

After listening to Thich Nhat Hanh answer questions in a 3 hour long Google Talk, I realized mindfulness's goal of removing pain also aimed to remove all the little dramas of the human experience. Some people think of mindfulness as a kind of cure to unhappiness, when it's really just a drug, or tool, wrapped up in "Wisdom of the East" woo packaging. Don't just "do mindfulness", because it's not a cure-all.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#105

Post by fsloth »

apatters wrote: post #91
edejong wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the mindfulness approach is that it only leads you knee-deep. Enough to enjoy the waves and the joy of water, but too little to start swimming. For example, I can still see you are not accepting your past self for what it is ("I thought I was insightful and deep before") or how the world is ("would be a FAR better place"). You are on a path towards awakening. Some of us have come to understand that t…

Now that Buddhists like you are coming in here and telling us to be more Buddhist and read and think Buddhist things, I think it's important to stress that anyone interested in mindfulness doesn't need to become a Buddhist. In fact there is a clinical application of mindfulness which is called cognitive behavioral therapy, it is proven through research to have great benefits for a lot of people, it is secular, and un…

I've done mindfulness and am ongoing CBT therapy and saying they are related is kind of wrong.

Both:

1. Are a method that aim to reduce suffering

2. Focus on habits and

3. Observation of the current self

But they are really not the same, or related on a practical level.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#106

Post by fsloth »

sshekhar wrote: post #11

The word mindfulness itself is a poor translation of the Pali word 'Sati'. The Pali word actually means 'remembering to be aware of the objects that your mind is attending to'. There is no word in western languages to capture that phrase and hence word 'mindfulness' was used to convey in a confusing manner what 'Sati' means. I have been meditating for 1 hour to 1.5 hour every day for several years and I finally got i…

I think I got to that stage by pure luck for a brief moment two decades ago when I kept looking at a dot above my bed very intentionally.

Never could reach that feeling ever again. But, it was transforming in the way that I humbly accepted that there are mystical cognitive states that are not produced by drugs.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#107

Post by fsloth »

proverbialbunny wrote: post #70

The author has fallen into nihilism and has mistaken it for Buddhism and mindfulness meditation. Buddhism warns against falling into nihilism like this, but I suspect mindfulness meditation practices do not. Anatta doesn't mean no-self. It's a complex concept and is often mistaken. Anatta has two parts to it: 1) Reality is broken up and labeled as two kinds. There is the present moment reality, before it has been lab…

Thanks, explaining anatta as set theory is a great analogue.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#108

Post by want2know »

I guess I will be downvoted for this but it always amazed me that so many people in HN are religious when it comes to mindfulness, Buddhism and meditation.

There is no scientific proof that there is any difference between relaxing in an chair and meditating following a strict form. The core is: it is very good to give the brain a brake in our busy times.

But it is also proven that it can be dangerous to give the brain a break when you have a troubles mind. Things can emerge from the depths which you should find help for.

A nice writeup about this is an article from 2016: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mindfulness-wellbein...

But there is also more recent recearch that backs this up.

So: meditation/relaxing can be very good to reduce stress and to think more clearly. But take care: "Meditation is not a therapy"

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#109

Post by Spearchucker »

Bizarro wrote: post #49

I've been skirting around the idea of practicing mindfulness, but there's something that bothers me about aeon and "magazines" like it. The articles always seem to try to be "contrarian" or "unique" for the sake of being different - "I've got something to tell you that you don't know and you haven't thought about". I get that it's pretty much the point of aeon, but at some point it just gets annoying. It's almost lik…

Exactly. Make the reader spend effort on attaining insight into the point and the reader becomes more invested in the product. Classic Cialdini.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#110

Post by Spearchucker »

scooble wrote: post #27

The main premise of the article seems to be that 'you are not your feelings' in mindfulness covertly introduces the idea of 'no self'. I don't find this compelling. If anything 'you are not your feelings' reinforces the 'western' picture of a self that has (but is not identical to) feelings.

So if we're not our body, and we're not our feelings (both are as transitory and regenerative as each other), then what are we? How do you define the self that is accountable for this body and these feelings?
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