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The Problem of Mindfulness

aeon.co

71–80 of 161 posts

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#71
post #20
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the mindfulness approach is that it only leads you knee-deep. Enough to enjoy the waves and the joy of water, but too little to start swimming. For example, I can still see you are not accepting your past self for what it is ("I thought I was insightful and deep before") or how the world is ("would be a FAR better place"). You are on a path towards awakening. Some of us have come to understand that t…

I think this is actually the exact problem the article talks about. It’s possible to engage with mindfulness practices without buying into the entire Buddhist belief system. This comment reinforces the author’s (I believe mistaken) point, that mindfulness sneaks in a bunch of Buddhist ideology. In my experience, it’s been possible to benefit from the practices while deciding some of the more doctrinal Buddhist belief…

> I think this is actually the exact problem the article talks about.

The article doesn't make it explicit, but I think that you have it backwards: the problem is that mindfulness is divorced from the Buddhist tradition. As an analogy, it's like the spread of corn as a staple without nixtamalization [1]. I.e. the surrounding context that Buddhism provides with other supporting and subsequent practices makes it more "stable".

[1] In the United States, European settlers did not always adopt the nixtamalization process, except in the case of hominy grits, though maize became a staple among the poor of the southern states. This led to endemic pellagra in poor populations throughout the southern US in the early 20th century https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixtamalization

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#72
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. In my case, mindfulness practice (at the moment with the Waking Up app from Sam Harris) has transformed my life in three short months. I thought I was insightful and deep before, yet was a victim of ephemeral thoughts and emotions far more than I realized. At no time have I given myself a pass or shirked responsibility in the way the article implies...rather, mindfulness practice has given me the time and qu…

The problem with the mindfulness approach is that it only leads you knee-deep. Enough to enjoy the waves and the joy of water, but too little to start swimming. For example, I can still see you are not accepting your past self for what it is ("I thought I was insightful and deep before") or how the world is ("would be a FAR better place"). You are on a path towards awakening. Some of us have come to understand that t…

Precisely, thank you for making this point

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#73

The word mindfulness itself is a poor translation of the Pali word 'Sati'. The Pali word actually means 'remembering to be aware of the objects that your mind is attending to'. There is no word in western languages to capture that phrase and hence word 'mindfulness' was used to convey in a confusing manner what 'Sati' means. I have been meditating for 1 hour to 1.5 hour every day for several years and I finally got i…

Thank you for sharing your experience.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#74

the thing that rubs me the wrong way about mindfulness is how it sits neatly between secularism, spirituality and obsessive self-improvement, it's exactly the sort of thing "high performers" who are full of themselves are drawn to. No value commitments, little meaningful connection to the real world, it's the sort of replacement for religiousness you expect to find in a tech mecca, which is of course where it has bee…

Your anecdote is hilarious. But so true! We aren't at peak mindfulness yet: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&q=mindfuln... However I suspect that the early adopters have moved on and the people preaching mindfulness are not the same sort of people as those that have moved on from it. We are in 'Eternal September' and 'Who ruined Burning Man' territory. Those that are actually 'mindful' and can 'do it…

> 'Who ruined Burning Man' territory.

Haha, and all the rest well said.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#75
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This brings to mind an illustrative example made by the Buddhist teacher Alexander Berzin: “You’re driving down the road, and another driver is doing something crazy, swerving about and you almost have an accident, and you think what an asshole! Having the thought that the other driver is an asshole is the first obscuration that prevents omniscience. Believing this thought to be true is the second obscuration (paraph…

> Having the thought that the other driver is an asshole is the first obscuration that prevents omniscience You know what else prevents omniscience? The second law of thermodynamics. So what? > It’s not that “you” don’t exist. It’s that the conditioned and conventionally accepted ways that we think we exist (and by extension the ways that we project that others exist) are ultimately false and don’t correspond to real…

Whoosh, you missed the point.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#77
post #66

I don't understand fuss about meditation. There are a lot of alternative states of consciousness and many ways to achieve them with different benefits in them. Why put one state on throne? For example drinking green tea, exercise, sleeping, anestesia, different drugs. If there is one alternative state in which quality you should invest your time than that is good night sleep because it is most natural and necessary f…

Mediation is exercise for the mind. One exercises the body to better control their bodily functions, like movements, breathing, heartbeat, etc. One meditates to develop better control of their thinking processes.

Mindfulness, concentration - these are just techniques to help you focus for extended periods of time, and make better decisions.

You can meditate to understand your way to escape samsara, to build a better software architecture, or to kill all humans.

Given enough practice, your mind functions in a permanently altered state, becoming more alert, focused, open, and elastic whenever you’re awake (though lucid dreaming is another potential kick some people chase). Now you can set goals, prioritise better, procrastinate less, rather than just cruising along. This gives you significant competitive edge over the rest of the population.

That’s what all the fuss is about.

Meditation can be exhausting, especially at the beginning - steering your thoughts is hard. So, importance of sleep is often one of the first things people very clearly realise when they try to consciously control their thought process.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#78

the thing that rubs me the wrong way about mindfulness is how it sits neatly between secularism, spirituality and obsessive self-improvement, it's exactly the sort of thing "high performers" who are full of themselves are drawn to. No value commitments, little meaningful connection to the real world, it's the sort of replacement for religiousness you expect to find in a tech mecca, which is of course where it has bee…

> The irony of course being that the entire practise seems to have been commodified already, now we can all medidate with the premium subscription meditation app that wants us to get away from our subscription services.

What's wrong with that? I don't mind good stuff to be commodified (like food, housing, health care, transport). Also you don't need to use an app, but if it's a good way to do it - why not? Also2: not sure why would meditation apps want you to get rid of, say, Netflix.

Re: The Problem of Mindfulness

#80
I wonder if ppl overthink this and make it more complex then it should with apps and references to ppl who really didn’t know much more than we do today about the brain.

Anyone tried sensory deprivation tank (or floating as it’s now known)?

Floating to me is the easiest method to let go of the monkey mind without trying. Dr John Lilly (the inventor) took it few notches further taking various substances to heighten his experience. I’m sure some ppl need that sort of journey to let go of memory loops/ptsd, but not required to float.

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