The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018) • Hacker News Board

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#21

Post by koala_man » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:23 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #17

I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. Mainly because I support the idea of automation and want it to work well. Maybe it's just the reliability engineer in me that wants to call out the bugs and have them fixed. Or maybe it's the former security engineer in me who got paid to find the flaws in these systems and my ethics deman…

I hope society will one day reach a level of honesty and trust where we can just leave stores unlocked and unattended at night.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#22

Post by LocalH » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

amayne wrote: post #13

hirundo wrote: post #12

I wanted to checkout at a Home Depot but there were no employees to be seen and only self-checkout lanes open. I had some items I wanted help with and in frustration asked the customer next to me, "does anybody work here?" He said "I guess we do." I won't be the guy who causes shrinkage but it seems reasonable for the seller to pay something for the buyers' labor as cashier.

I believe it's called lower prices – at least in theory. (My apologies for coming across as pedantic.) Physical stores use them to remain competitive in pricing. The lower price is your incentive for doing it yourself (again in theory.)

I'm not aware of any major stores that provide a self-checkout discount.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#23

Post by alkonaut » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

In all stores I know, there are randomized inspection of say every 30 customers. Missed something tiny and you might be reprimanded and you’ll get tighter inspections for many months to come (until you had several inspections without issue). If you are found to have made some kind of fraud that is obviously a mistake then you’ll be stripped of the “privilege” of self-checkout as well as probably reported to police and likely other stores.

To ensure self checkout is a “privilege” stores must ensure there are rebates available only to self checkout customers, and that lines at the traditional checkout are long enough to make self checkout significantly faster.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#24

Post by eternauta3k » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:34 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #12

I wanted to checkout at a Home Depot but there were no employees to be seen and only self-checkout lanes open. I had some items I wanted help with and in frustration asked the customer next to me, "does anybody work here?" He said "I guess we do." I won't be the guy who causes shrinkage but it seems reasonable for the seller to pay something for the buyers' labor as cashier.

> it seems reasonable for the seller to pay something for the buyers' labor as cashier.

One argument against that is that if people are willing to provide that labor freely, it's worth nothing.

Another argument: before supermarkets, you'd ask the clerk to get a list of things from the shelves (which customers couldn't access). Now this labor is done by customers. Self-checkout is just another change like that.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#25

Post by jedberg » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:35 PM UTC

alkonaut wrote: post #23

In all stores I know, there are randomized inspection of say every 30 customers. Missed something tiny and you might be reprimanded and you’ll get tighter inspections for many months to come (until you had several inspections without issue). If you are found to have made some kind of fraud that is obviously a mistake then you’ll be stripped of the “privilege” of self-checkout as well as probably reported to police an…

Do you happen to live in Europe? I've only ever seen the inspections in Europe.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#26

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:36 PM UTC

>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.”

I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extreme persecution complex.

Yes- it is possible to make this connection: that because you are scanning your own shopping you are being charged to work at the store. However, you are not being charged to scan your items. You are charged to buy the items you scan. There is no extra charge for using the self-checkout (not anywhere I know of anyway). Indeed, the store may be making an extra profit by not having to pay as many cashiers. But, stores are always finding ways to make extra profit, for example by offering you a discount on certain items, on certain days, etc. Are you more morally justified than usual to shoplift because a store has a discount on Swiss cheese this week? They are making you pick up the swiss cheese and take it to the till (automated or not). Are they charging you to move items around the store?

Like I say- this makes no sense. It is quintessential procrustean logic: stretching and reducing the meaning of words until they fit your preconceived reasoning.

P.S. I spent so much time on this crap instead of dismissing it shallowly because dang gets sad when people don't show intellectual cuiriosity.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#27

Post by jzwinck » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

koala_man wrote: post #21

jedberg wrote: post #17

I must be a rube, because I've never stolen from one of those things. When it makes a mistake I call the attendant to correct it. Mainly because I support the idea of automation and want it to work well. Maybe it's just the reliability engineer in me that wants to call out the bugs and have them fixed. Or maybe it's the former security engineer in me who got paid to find the flaws in these systems and my ethics deman…

I hope society will one day reach a level of honesty and trust where we can just leave stores unlocked and unattended at night.

It already has, in Singapore. There are Starbucks which close at night simply by drawing a plastic chain across the storefront and emptying the cash registers. I think they still lock the Frappuccino fridge, but no one knows for sure because we don't go test it.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#28

Post by nkozyra » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

jachee wrote: post #14

nkozyra wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd believe it if there were somehow a fine for using a human checkout. But there isn't. Because there are easier, less abrasive ways of disincentivizing this behavior, namely by making fewer human checkouts available.

There's a 24-hour Kroger near where I used to live that would routinely shut down the last human cashier around 10PM, which was about an hour too early. This resulted in a nightly backup at the two self-check lines they'd leave open, sometimes taking 20+ minutes to check out. Even as someone who prefers to self-checkout: It was a mess.

This is by design.

Target often runs large metro stores with TWO cashiers. I once went into the Target on 14th St in Manhattan and saw just a single human. Most customers are already conditioned to go through the self checkout.

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#29

Post by amaccuish » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:44 PM UTC

2bitencryption wrote: post #2

I did once abuse the self-checkout myself, but I felt justified: The tag on the shelf said the crackers were buy-one-get-one-free. But when I rang them both up, it charged for both. Instead of calling an attendant, I just voided one of them but walked out with it. I'm basically a criminal mastermind.

Sorry, what does "rang them up" mean here? :)

Re: The Banana Trick and Other Acts of Self-Checkout Thievery (2018)

#30

Post by mindslight » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 9:47 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #26

>> “There is NO MORAL ISSUE with stealing from a store that forces you to use self checkout, period. THEY ARE CHARGING YOU TO WORK AT THEIR STORE.” I find the twisted reasoning in this comment shocking and I don't really know what to say. It is a kind of twisted reasoning that I've only seen in people who were high on strong narcotics and were carried away by waves of wishful thinking and delusions, or, again, extrem…

Alternatively, it's revealing a deeper truth that had been obscured by a long chain of seemingly logical justifications. Corporations tend to abuse abstractions until they break, and self-checkout is basically at that breaking point.

Comedy is especially good at deflating bullshit like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxINJzqzn4w

I for one could never stand the things for their slow and obtuse programming. I cannot get how people just accept slowly following a machine in lockstep, rather than the machine being designed to accommodate a natural human workflow. Back when the things were new, they would give out freebies by deciding to flip out and void the last few items, without the conveyor actually bringing them all back. I certainly wasn't going to go out of my way to correct its error, setting myself back even further.

At this point I just skip the frustrating things out of personal policy, and outright avoid stores that punish customers for doing so (Walmart being the worst offender). If I can't stand an extra 5 minutes in line for the professional cashier, I should order online or simply stock up and visit less.