Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

gfintegrity.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 255 posts

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#231

Post by Animats »

tuxxy wrote: post #201
Animats wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then I realized, the government gets all of the ID information they need about the corporation the moment the entity needs to open a bank account. Only if the corporation has a US bank account. A Cayman Islands bank account, not so much. There's too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. In California, it is a criminal misdemeanor to ask for a credit card number on line before the actual name and address of th…

There is absolutely _not_ too much tolerance of anonymous corporations. If anything, there's not enough. The majority of them are likely used for lawful reasons. What an absurd, anti-privacy statement.

Corporations are not entitled to privacy as a right.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#232

Post by Spooky23 »

jlawson wrote: post #170
Spooky23 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A corporation creates a fictitious person. Allowing the beneficial interests to be hidden is disgusting and not compatible with a free market. Long ago, a corporate charter required an act of the state legislature to authorize it. Obviously that’s a heavy handed approach, but the idea that any agent of any person or other entity can anonymously create a company is ridiculous.

A corporation is not a fictitious person. You can't get a corporation a passport, or a welfare cheque, or enroll it in school. You can own and freely erase a corporation, you can't own or erase a person. A corporation is a legal entity which can engage in some of the same contracts as people can, because its entire purpose is to serve as a legal framework for organizing economic activity. In primitive societies, econ…

The notion of an enterprise as a fictitious person is a well established idea that has existed since at least the Roman Empire.

Many government entities are fictitious persons. All public authorities are, and many agencies. I’m unsure of how a sovereign state compares to a corporation legally.

Your dog is entirely different. It is a chattel, or your personal property. Your dog has no agency, ownership of anything, etc.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#233

Post by pvg »

Spooky23 wrote: post #229
pvg wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not called 'voter fraud' though - 'voter fraud' is a more narrowly specific term than 'election fraud' and 'election shenanigans'.

“Voter fraud” in that context that is at best a boogeyman and at worse code for “poor and brown people voting”.

This is your bit:

"Actual vote fraud is about political machinery".

That's not 'vote[r] fraud'. The meaning of the term is independent of whether this type of fraud is common or not, how the threat of it is misused politically, etc.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#234

Post by nrb »

optimiz3 wrote: post #195
nrb wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does if that corporation is used to conceal income in a way that reduces the local tax base, which could negatively affect the utility of nearly all communally owned goods/services.

Corporations still have to file taxes, unclear how corporate registration requirements lead to tax fraud.

Tax avoidance, not tax fraud.

The article was about the ease of setting up series of shell companies, which can easily move money around the world in a hard-to-detect way in order to conceal profits made by people, with no way to determine who those people are or what their tax obligations are.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#235

Post by manigandham »

xbmcuser wrote: post #212
manigandham wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difficulty should not overrule importance when it comes to federal elections. > " need to make sure people can easily get an id" I agree. I don't think it's as simple or generic as a single political party preventing it though. Is there a clear example of what is stopping people from obtaining these IDs?

When a single political party has the most involvement in curtailing voting hours number of voting booths the opening hours when a person is able to get an id etc. Then it paints a picture. Though I agree its not as simple as that and there are multiple reasons apart from the above but the major reason is the peoples distrust of the government in the US which results in inadequate funding to fix the above problems.

Sure, I think major federal elections should be a federal holiday to ensure time availability. I don't see how that's the same as requiring identification though.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#236

Post by thepangolino »

augustocallejas wrote: post #202
phendrenad2 wrote: post #125

Interesting historical tidbit: Many libraries had very lax requirements for library cards pre-9/11. The PATRIOT Act forced them to collect more information. https://sfpl.org/index.php?pg=2000060501&fullsite=true

Ironic, since the Ad Council released commercials like these after 9/11 showing someone getting questioned after asking about a book in a library, and ending with "What if America wasn't America?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgmBFb4jfjw

Why is it an unlisted video?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#237

Post by jlawson »

Spooky23 wrote: post #232
jlawson wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A corporation is not a fictitious person. You can't get a corporation a passport, or a welfare cheque, or enroll it in school. You can own and freely erase a corporation, you can't own or erase a person. A corporation is a legal entity which can engage in some of the same contracts as people can, because its entire purpose is to serve as a legal framework for organizing economic activity. In primitive societies, econ…

The notion of an enterprise as a fictitious person is a well established idea that has existed since at least the Roman Empire. Many government entities are fictitious persons. All public authorities are, and many agencies. I’m unsure of how a sovereign state compares to a corporation legally. Your dog is entirely different. It is a chattel, or your personal property. Your dog has no agency, ownership of anything, et…

If we understand 'fictitious person' in the limited legal sense, you're right. It becomes wrong when laypeople start to think that this means a lot more than it does, because they take the literal words out of context and attach a bunch of meanings that aren't present in the legal meaning.

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#238

Post by jakelazaroff »

manigandham wrote: post #228
jakelazaroff wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does an ID enable you to measure voter fraud?

Because you can check and measure who is actually eligible to vote before they vote. Let me ask, why do we have identification for joining a company? Checking employment status? Boarding a flight? Starting a business? Opening a bank account? Getting government assistance? Why would that be necessary but not for voting?

I'm not asking about prevention or why voter ID makes sense in general; I'm asking how it enables measurement of voter fraud. We already have a record of everyone who voted and their address and identifying information such as driver's license number or social security number. What additional information does an ID provide?

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#239

Post by rpiguy »

samschooler wrote: post #3
rpiguy wrote: post #2

As it should be.

Can you expand on this? I'm wondering what your reasoning is for requiring more or less info in either case.

Commerce is good and barriers to it should be minimal. Libraries are community property, paid for by tax payers. If you are going to borrow community property it is not a small thing.

Almost anyone can walk into a library, pick up a book, and read it there. So there is still relatively good access to information. It is the borrowing part that creates the red tape.

Even if it is simpler to create a company than get a library card, I guarantee as soon as that company tries to borrow money there will be plenty of paperwork :-)

Re: The Library Card Project: The Ease of Forming Anonymous Companies in the U.S.

#240

Post by manigandham »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #238
manigandham wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you can check and measure who is actually eligible to vote before they vote. Let me ask, why do we have identification for joining a company? Checking employment status? Boarding a flight? Starting a business? Opening a bank account? Getting government assistance? Why would that be necessary but not for voting?

I'm not asking about prevention or why voter ID makes sense in general; I'm asking how it enables measurement of voter fraud. We already have a record of everyone who voted and their address and identifying information such as driver's license number or social security number. What additional information does an ID provide?

How do you know that information is accurate and matches the individual? For example, for all those situations I described, why is ID required when you can also just provide the information instead? Can you walk into a bank and provide your info without verification?

Requiring ID allows us to measure when fraud is occuring by individuals attempting to submit votes and data that is not theirs. Otherwise, there is no "truth" to compare to. I guess we can always call every single person and verify their vote, but then is that not the same thing as an ID check?

Post reply on HN