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Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

zwischenzugs.com

61–70 of 95 posts

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#61

He replaced Docker with something that's basically the same thing?! I don't get it.

It's not him. Docker was retired last year in case you are not aware of that.

RedHat replaced docker with their own software. The command is still "docker" but it doesn't run docker. Since RedHat basically runs Linux, docker is dead, it will be transparently killed from all the Linux distributions soon.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#62

> was likely due to a script that had got out of hand starting up too many containers. So there wasn't any actual problem with Docker, it was the OP's own problem that they "solved" by switching container platforms instead of just fixing their own buggy script?

It seems that "abandoning Docker" is the latest fashion fad, this is not the first article of this kind on HN recently.

I look at each of those articles carefully and my takeaway every time is the same: there are great alternatives to Docker if you have unlimited time and are willing to accept lots of limitations.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#63
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, some container went rogue, and in the process dragged the Docker daemon which annoyed him PLUS he'd learnt that it was possible to run containers rootless and daemonless SO he changed his setup. Please RTFA.

Docker 19.03 has a rootless option https://github.com/moby/moby/blob/master/docs/rootless.md https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20542915

Last I checked it isn't out yet and Podman offers this already.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#64
I still don't "get" docker. I've deployed systems with it, and it works fine (maybe except for postgres containment, there still seems to be some "bare metal assumptions" that postgres may use that docker may invalidate), but why not use Ansible/Vagrant to build images? It appears (to me) to be the same thing, but with new mental overhead and/or cult involved.

Lots of ways to make sure that images get built and tested and deployed by scripts that keep a lot of config and directory in stand-alone (twinned) services. Why there is a "docker" cult (which may be the wrong word - it may be very very valid) escapes me.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#65

I just wish docker wasnt slow as shit on mac's (then again I guess relative to vagrant it's not that bad)

Because they have to use a hypervisor to get the benefits of the Linux kernel. If you want to speed things up and get native benefits then try switching to Linux or convince Apple to add native containers.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#67
post #33

I’ve managed to resist the hype and still not ever used docker for anything ... I still really struggle to understand what the practical benefits to this kind of containerization actually are ... It seems like people reach for it because they want to have some kind of “compile target” into which they can stick “all the things” their application needs to run — which is supposed to then help them “deploy” into their de…

> I still really struggle to understand what the practical benefits to this kind of containerization actually are ... Here's why I started using it years ago. I had a CentOS 6 machine that I wanted to run Plex, Subsonic and Transmission on, but I couldn't, because they had different (EDIT: and conflicting) requirements for various packages. I might have been able to hack it, but it was looking really tricky. Enter Do…

If you didn't have that requirement of conflicting packages, would you still have used docker?

Isn't once a year update a large security risk?

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I facepalmed when I read that... This is an all too common problem in development and it's made me very skeptical of coworkers at times who use it "X technology doesn't work or X is garbage" as a justification to switch technologies or spend time prototyping several alternatives. I'm not gonna say Docker is a perfect tool by any stretch either.

Very true. I know a lot of people in school who have to use a generally well regarded technology, but hate it because they had to use it in a class. For example, they might see someone on github and go “oh is that github? I hate using git” when in reality they had to use it in a group project with 4 other people who have never used it, and had no understanding of branches, merging, etc. I have seen the same thing wit…

>git...LaTeX, Python, and Vim

To be fair, LaTeX, git, and Vim, beyond shallow use, have fairly steep learning curves and can initially seem like a huge inconvenient mess before one learns, through trial and error, enough of the basics to really unlock enough utility to justify their use.

In a perfect world we'd all first sit down with manuals/tutorials, absorb everything from the getgo, and hack away with bliss; but most people, myself included, do not have enough intrinsic interest to muster the will to sit through documentation while paying enough attention to absorb a bunch of seemingly irrelevant details about some involved tech tool, when we have one simple goal to accomplish now, so instead we piece everything together with a combination of Google searches and keyboard mashing until things work and then optimize on top of that later.

In my experience this can be one of the factors that define a so called 10x dev - the willingness and ability to plod through docs with a genuine interest before using a powerful tool. I imagine such crowd is overrepresented on HN but quite rare in the general population.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#69
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, some container went rogue, and in the process dragged the Docker daemon which annoyed him PLUS he'd learnt that it was possible to run containers rootless and daemonless SO he changed his setup. Please RTFA.

Docker 19.03 has a rootless option https://github.com/moby/moby/blob/master/docs/rootless.md https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20542915

Not the default hence not well tested. AND you still have a Docker daemon running. Furthermore, last time I checked, Docker does not support user namespacing in a released version yet.

I maintain the "duh fix your script dummy" is not the right attitude. The author clearly states it's used for a build farm. That is bound to fail ...

I read "Docker daemon was using 100% CPU" to be the recurring incident; not a given script. And when that happens, it ends up cascading and stuff get OOM-killed before you know it.

Re: Goodbye Docker: Purging Is Such Sweet Sorrow

#70
post #7

HDD : Hype Driven Development. "Yeah, we should just give up on Docker and rebuild all the container ecosystem using IBM technology."

My coworker likes to call it RDD. Resume Driven Development.

Just stick with something long enough to comfortably add it to your resume, then drop it and never maintain what you made.

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