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Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

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Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#11

Post by vpzom »

Iv wrote: post #7
wtmt wrote: post #4

The insistence on a surname is quite annoying for people who don't have one or use one. In India, there are many cultures where a surname or family name isn't used or isn't passed down from one generation to another and to the next and so on. There are cultures where a surname is used. But what's very common across the country is addressing people by their first (or only) names whether or not one is close to them. Ev…

There was a stand up comedian of Algerian descent explaining that situation when the French administration tries to do the census of their colony. The custom was to use your father's and grandfather's name as a name. Problem is, many people, including brothers would have the most popular name (I think it was Mohammed). Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common. So the French admninistration…

>Hopefully one day we have a UID for humans[…]

that sounds really dangerous

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#12

Post by schoen »

dredmorbius wrote: post #5

Naming is an interesting thing. I'm wrestling with it from another contex presently. I'm reminded of the lines from Homer. in which the hero (himself given at least two names within the text, including one in its title) unambiguously (and rather rashly as it happens) identifies himself to Polyphemus: Cyclops, if any man of mortal birth Note thine unseemly blindness and inquire The occasion, tell him that Laertes' son…

This is especially important because he's previously successfully fooled Polyphemus by calling himself Οὖτις ('Nobody'), which produces trouble when the Cyclops tries to get others to help defend against "Nobody's" attacks.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#13

Post by Iv »

vpzom wrote: post #11
Iv wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a stand up comedian of Algerian descent explaining that situation when the French administration tries to do the census of their colony. The custom was to use your father's and grandfather's name as a name. Problem is, many people, including brothers would have the most popular name (I think it was Mohammed). Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common. So the French admninistration…

>Hopefully one day we have a UID for humans[…] that sounds really dangerous

I keep seeing people from US and UK equating IDs with totalitarianism. Why? I don't follow the reasoning here.

I believe all Americans have a social security number, right? And all passport holders have a de-facto global UID (but not everyone has a passport and bi-nationals may have several)

I don't see what this enables that would be impossible without.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#14

Post by smaccona »

Iv wrote: post #7
wtmt wrote: post #4

The insistence on a surname is quite annoying for people who don't have one or use one. In India, there are many cultures where a surname or family name isn't used or isn't passed down from one generation to another and to the next and so on. There are cultures where a surname is used. But what's very common across the country is addressing people by their first (or only) names whether or not one is close to them. Ev…

There was a stand up comedian of Algerian descent explaining that situation when the French administration tries to do the census of their colony. The custom was to use your father's and grandfather's name as a name. Problem is, many people, including brothers would have the most popular name (I think it was Mohammed). Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common. So the French admninistration…

Having a full combination of first + family name doesn't really help for identification purposes, though: "John Smith" may not be quite as unidentifiable/ambiguous as "Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed", but it's not too far off it either.

In general, websites don't depend on these names for identification; if a site refused to sign me up because I shared a name with another "Smith, John" then I would rightly be irritated. So why do (many) sites insist on collection first and last names separately, as opposed to just a "full name" field that would be used to address me on the site or via email? Is it purely a data collection / advertising / monetization thing?

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#15

Post by galaxyLogic »

Iv wrote: post #7
wtmt wrote: post #4

The insistence on a surname is quite annoying for people who don't have one or use one. In India, there are many cultures where a surname or family name isn't used or isn't passed down from one generation to another and to the next and so on. There are cultures where a surname is used. But what's very common across the country is addressing people by their first (or only) names whether or not one is close to them. Ev…

There was a stand up comedian of Algerian descent explaining that situation when the French administration tries to do the census of their colony. The custom was to use your father's and grandfather's name as a name. Problem is, many people, including brothers would have the most popular name (I think it was Mohammed). Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common. So the French admninistration…

There are many people whose name is Jesus

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#16

Post by walrus01 »

In Afghanistan it's extremely common to have a "last name" that is basically the same thing as an Icelandic last name.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_name

If your name is Mahmoud, and your father's name is Jawad, your name printed in English on a passport might be:

Mahmoud Jawad-e

It literally just means son of Jawad.

Other people have family names that are specific to the region where their family is historically from. Met more than a few people whose last name is "Parwane", which literally just means from Parwan province.

This lady literally didn't have a last name and picked her own, it translates as "friend of humans".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmHQYV127QA

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#17

Post by galaxyLogic »

I wonder what the expression "one whose name must not be spoken" really is about. Why are there such things or people, or are there?

Recently I've noticed a name which must not be pronounced in vain is "Alexa". If you talk about her she always interrupts with a lengthy diatribe. It has lead to a situation in my family where we speak like "Why don't you ask "you know who" to play that song for you?"

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#18

Post by walrus01 »

Iv wrote: post #7
wtmt wrote: post #4

The insistence on a surname is quite annoying for people who don't have one or use one. In India, there are many cultures where a surname or family name isn't used or isn't passed down from one generation to another and to the next and so on. There are cultures where a surname is used. But what's very common across the country is addressing people by their first (or only) names whether or not one is close to them. Ev…

There was a stand up comedian of Algerian descent explaining that situation when the French administration tries to do the census of their colony. The custom was to use your father's and grandfather's name as a name. Problem is, many people, including brothers would have the most popular name (I think it was Mohammed). Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common. So the French admninistration…

> Algeria

> Having a Mohammed, son of Mohammed, grandson of Mohammed was common.

> In the absence of a universal ID scheme, I don't see a way around forcing a working pattern into every culture, with the acceptance that some things may be lost in translation.

Pakistan has very much the same problem, they've gone for a national ID card system. It hasn't been entirely fraud or ID theft free, but they're certainly trying.

https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=nad...

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#19

Post by walrus01 »

Iv wrote: post #13
vpzom wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Hopefully one day we have a UID for humans[…] that sounds really dangerous

I keep seeing people from US and UK equating IDs with totalitarianism. Why? I don't follow the reasoning here. I believe all Americans have a social security number, right? And all passport holders have a de-facto global UID (but not everyone has a passport and bi-nationals may have several) I don't see what this enables that would be impossible without.

I find it amusing at how many Americans seem resistant to a national ID system, but blithely give out their social security number to any number of private entities, along with their DOB, full name, mother's maiden name, etc. Basically a ready made identity theft kit when the inevitable data breach occurs.

You already have a national attempt at a GUID per human, it's called a social security number, it just has incredibly lax security and data handling practices, and no teeth in penalties for its misuse.

Re: Why we don't use Galileo's last name (2009)

#20

Post by schoen »

LawnboyMax wrote: post #6

Interestingly, Galileo's Sidereus Nuncius mentions "Galileo Galileo" on the cover. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereus_Nuncius I wonder if this is at all related to the question asked in this article.

That looks like the Latin ablative case, governed by the preposition "a" in the previous line. In Latin you can see many different forms of a name depending on its context in a sentence (the two most common in books' title pages being the genitive and ablative, roughly meaning 'of' and 'by').
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