How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people? • Hacker News Board

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#181

Post by sysashi » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:40 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #148

einpoklum wrote: post #54

The question should really be "How are many national economies keeping innumerable people hungry, even though there's plenty of food to go around several times over?" In most places in the world it's easy and cheap enough to produce food and distribute it. Actually, it's so easy and cheap that many world states artificially subsidize agriculture/livestock farming/etc. to prevent them from collapsing due to low prices…

Because powers that be want control more than they want happy, well-fed, even productive population. Ask any organizers of international food programs. In most cases local authorities will demand that they, not the international do-gooders, distributed the food. When they get hold of that food, they keep it under lock and key and distribute in a way that supports the existing power / social status structure, not in a…

Reminds me of Russia today which banned certain import of food (like Parmesan for example and many others) then publicly and demonstratively destroyed it, airing on state TV, using trucks etc. Even few live goats got under truck. That's the most surreal thing I've seen.

Meanwhile we have people who die from hunger.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#182

Post by staplor » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #180

Without reading the link... This kind of question is dumb. It imagines there is an entity called "China" that's tasked with feeding 1.3B people. In reality, it's just 1,300,000,000 individuals tasked with feeding themselves, just like anywhere else in the world. We do it by division of labor. Some grow food, others build goods, others provide services. We all trade with each other so everyone can specialize at what w…

Read the link and then delete your comment.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#183

Post by seanmcdirmid » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 1:59 AM UTC

Cacti wrote: post #116

tepidandroid wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what does the Dalai Lama and Uighur oppression have to do with this The snark likely comes from the fact that Xinjiang is consistently portrayed in Western media as a nightmarish, dystopian, Orwellian hellhole suffering under the iron fisted oppression of the Communist Party. They ignore the very real benefits that have been afforded to millions of poverty-stricken people in Xinjiang via progressive government poli…

> Xinjiang is consistently portrayed in Western media as a nightmarish, dystopian, Orwellian hellhole suffering under the iron fisted oppression of the Communist Party That’s because it is, and if you visited you wouldn’t be so flippant about it. In large part because a tourist can’t even make a stop in the area without getting their own personal police minder. It’s little different than North Korea.

I’ve visited Xinjiang in 2006, before the 2008 riots mind you, but it’s just another Chinese province and you wouldn’t know there was trouble going on if it weren’t for the armed police, extra internet fire walling, and so on.

That is not to say there isn’t a problem, but hanging out in Urumqi is definitely nowhere near as interesting as hanging out in Pyongyang.

Tibet is much harder to visit, foreigners have to apply for a permit (which you don’t need to visit Xinjiang).

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#184

Post by nitwit005 » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:07 AM UTC

ModernMech wrote: post #170

jolmg wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't the fact that they're subsidized to keep them from collapsing due to low prices mean the opposite of it being easy and cheap? If the subsidies were removed, the farmers/etc would need to raise their prices to pay for whatever the subsidies paid. That new higher price would reflect the real cost of production. The subsidies are there to keep prices low and accessible despite a higher cost of production.

Well if you take corn for instance, we use a large portion of that to create high fructose corn syrup. The government subsidizes it to keep prices low, so that it's cheap enough to stick in everything from soft drinks to salad dressing to bread. We don't actually need all that sugar; it's keeping Americans fat and unhealthy. But I'll leave you to draw the obvious conclusions about what a fat sugar-addicted population…

We also turn the corn into ethanol and force everyone to add it to their auto fuel, and they want to increase that amount. Which is, in essence, forcing everyone to burn corn.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#185

Post by nitwit005 » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

alexron782 wrote: post #161

rajeshp1986 wrote: post #97

I was really impressed by the top answer until I read this statement. "I mean, the Chinese government has also forced Tibetans to build a massive amount of greenhouses on the Tibetan plateau. Those Tibetans have no time to go to temples for worshipping any more, instead, they have to work in the greenhouses taking care of tomatoes. This is why Dalai Lama is not so happy to hear this." What??

You should post the following paragraph as well: "As a result, the average vegetable price in Tibet has reduced by 90% over the past decade and they don’t have to import vegetables from nearby provinces anymore. Most of the Tibetans can finally afford to eat watermelons. Who doesn’t like eating watermelons? You know that most Tibetans historically only eat yak meat, milk, cheese, and bread? They couldn’t grow anythin…

The logic is a bit dubious. The Chinese had a pretty crappy diet when they invaded Tibet. Whether the China invaded or not, the food quality would have risen, just like most of the rest of the planet.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#186

Post by ModernMech » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:32 AM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #176

ModernMech wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well if you take corn for instance, we use a large portion of that to create high fructose corn syrup. The government subsidizes it to keep prices low, so that it's cheap enough to stick in everything from soft drinks to salad dressing to bread. We don't actually need all that sugar; it's keeping Americans fat and unhealthy. But I'll leave you to draw the obvious conclusions about what a fat sugar-addicted population…

Is it really that much of an evil scheme? Isn't it just dating back to sugar tariffs? Wasn't sugar the first tariff in the history of the US? It seems more like it's just an entrenched industry. Corn especially now that it's tied up in gassoline and Trump's trade war.

> Is it really that much of an evil scheme ... seems more like it's just an entrenched industry

Same thing, really. Entrenched industries usually find themselves a nice feedback loop and dig in. The nature of capitalism allows them to ignore any negative externalities of their product. They ship out corn-sugar and dollars roll in. They don't deal with the realities of diabetes and heart disease caused by their products. Heart disease is the #1 killer in this country. Diabetes is #7. If we want any hope at combating this, we need less sugar in this country. But big sugar is indifferent to this, and that's where the evil comes in. In fact, they know this is happening, but the calculus is clear.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#187

Post by CriticalCathed » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #133

jaaron wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely an impressive response, but it also looks like the sort of state sponsored responses typical of Chinese propaganda. That's not to say it's inaccurate, just biased.

The comment basically says that China has forced the Tibetans into slavery. Is that typical of Chinese propaganda? > the Chinese government has also forced Tibetans to build a massive amount of greenhouses...they have to work in the greenhouses taking care of tomatoes.

Yes. It seems like it's not the kind of thing a government should be saying because you're from the west. Forcing someone to do something that betters their lives is not seen as bad or propagandized as bad in China.

The basic point in the post is "Look, those Tibetans no longer waste their time worshiping gods and are instead working hard to better their lives thanks to the Chinese Government."

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#188

Post by mhh__ » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:39 AM UTC

klausjensen wrote: post #33

bilbo0s wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Woah. I thought you were being hyperbolic. Man! That was a well fleshed out answer. Is Quora always like that? Or is that a one off kind of thing?

One-off. Most stuff on Quora is a thinly veiled advertisement for something - at least when I search for something and end up on Quora. But there are exceptions - and boy is this article a great example of that.

If you follow the right people you can have a good experience. I try to strike some balance to avoid echo chambers. If you've ever wanted to learn the perspectives on life and fighting of a convicted war criminal/terrorist then Quora's your place.

The thing I absolutely loathe, however are these clickbait answers - always about sex - written by anonymous users and normal answers that - because the photos load before the text - have borderline porn to draw people in. It ruins the site.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#189

Post by sevilo » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:41 AM UTC

bllguo wrote: post #46

dmix wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the first answer has “Western media won’t tell you this”. Like there’s some western conspiracy to downplay Chinese agriculture industry. The Chinese media is constantly telling their people that the US is plotting against China and is hostile to them, so the citizens don’t get any crazy ideas like democracy and human rights. While simultaneously amplifying the bad news coming out of America to show the ‘dangers’…

The tone is honestly understandable. It pains me to bring up this cliched point, but is the US media not constantly telling us that China is hostile, China is plotting? As someone with a foot in both worlds, US coverage of China is _at least_ equally warped. It's funny; to my parents and relatives in China I'm perceived as having a US bias, but everywhere else I get characterized as being too Chinese. It's hard for m…

If I could I'd upvote this 100 times, it's funny to see people thinking their side is the "one true side of the story", be it the US or China. If you haven't lived in both worlds and understand values and cultures of both, don't be so quick on your feet to think your existing beliefs are the entire truth.

Re: How is China able to provide enough food to feed over 1B people?

#190

Post by _bxg1 » Sat, Jul 27, 2019, 2:44 AM UTC

tombh wrote: post #141

_bxg1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I enjoyed having my perspective on China as a country expanded; I don't hear many positive things about it, and the environmental focus is genuinely refreshing, in stark contrast to my own country's idiocy in that department. With that said, nothing outweighs their government's human rights violations. Nothing. I know the U.S. has some of its own, but not to an extremity nor scale nor public acceptance that comes any…

The very existence of America is a human rights violation, vis-a-vis the original inhabitants and African slavery. Not to mention the multitude of similar abuses those same Europeans caused over the rest of the world. China's violations are certainly serious, but it's just not comparable to the sheer extent of the West's.

I was of course only talking about the present and future. That's what matters when it comes to foreign policy.